Banks to put four day hold on suspicious payments.

[Mysstree]

Potential problems?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7yel28rx6o

[ZRPMs]

It happening quite frequent now. Lots on here have had issues. Recently did a purchase for a number sovereigns here. My bank sent the payment so payment had left my account but sellers bank froze their account. Seller was un able to confirm receipt although they had a message from their bank telling them that they were investigating a large payment. Lots of calls from the seller to his bank. I even contacted mine. My bank at that time told me payment had been made and had left my account. I was getting worried as funds had gone and I hadn't got the sovereigns. However, after a few more messages and both of us expressing a bit of concern the seller sent the sovereigns and I made a promise that if the payment was returned I would make good the payment to the seller. Either smaller Bank transfers or Pay pal or something. The day of the delivery my bank froze my account and it was a phone conversation that was well over an hour full of questions regarding the whole transaction. eventually they accepted that it was all above board and genuine. The experience was not good. for both parties. The control of our own funds now has shifted from us to the banks and at the risk of my tin foil hat slipping the government has their grubby paws reaching out for it as well.

 

[BackyardBullion]

@ZRPMs Which banks were involved? Totally understand if you would rather not name them, but just curious. 

[MackWhite]

19 minutes ago, ZRPMs said:

It happening quite frequent now. Lots on here have had issues. Recently did a purchase for a number sovereigns here. My bank sent the payment so payment had left my account but sellers bank froze their account. Seller was un able to confirm receipt although they had a message from their bank telling them that they were investigating a large payment. Lots of calls from the seller to his bank. I even contacted mine. My bank at that time told me payment had been made and had left my account. I was getting worried as funds had gone and I hadn't got the sovereigns. However, after a few more messages and both of us expressing a bit of concern the seller sent the sovereigns and I made a promise that if the payment was returned I would make good the payment to the seller. Either smaller Bank transfers or Pay pal or something. The day of the delivery my bank froze my account and it was a phone conversation that was well over an hour full of questions regarding the whole transaction. eventually they accepted that it was all above board and genuine. The experience was not good. for both parties. The control of our own funds now has shifted from us to the banks and at the risk of my tin foil hat slipping the government has their grubby paws reaching out for it as well.

 

Those aren't Your funds unfortunately they are owed to You by the bank and bank can decide will it pay out. Common misconception.

[neilthenurse]

5 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

@ZRPMs Which banks were involved? Totally understand if you would rather not name them, but just curious. 

I'm happy to name M*nzo for locking my account after assuming I had been scammed. Not on suspicion of, they used the phrase "you have been scammed". They were extremely intrusive, initially holding the transfer, then when I refused to co-operate, they locked my account. Maybe not the smartest move, but I held my ground and they eventually unlocked my account.

[Mysstree]

So far i have had no problems with Barclays and i have virtually emptied a savings account with quite a few purchases. I use the PINsentry system which is a double authentication process and each transaction has been more or less instant.

[BackyardBullion]

16 minutes ago, neilthenurse said:

I'm happy to name M*nzo for locking my account after assuming I had been scammed. Not on suspicion of, they used the phrase "you have been scammed". They were extremely intrusive, initially holding the transfer, then when I refused to co-operate, they locked my account. Maybe not the smartest move, but I held my ground and they eventually unlocked my account.

This is not the first time I have heard of Monzo doing this to a SELLER

Thats the bigger concern for me. 

Banks questioning £1000's in payments out of your account, sure I understand that. Its intrusive but they have a duty of care (I don't like when they will not unlock things when you tell them all is OK, but thats a slightly different topic).

But when a bank freezes your account for selling something and doing everything correctly and legally but they just auto assume you are defrauding someone or instantly a money launderer its very concerning. 

Did you close your account with Monzo?

[neilthenurse]

3 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

This is not the first time I have heard of Monzo doing this to a SELLER

Thats the bigger concern for me. 

Banks questioning £1000's in payments out of your account, sure I understand that. Its intrusive but they have a duty of care (I don't like when they will not unlock things when you tell them all is OK, but thats a slightly different topic).

But when a bank freezes your accounf for selling something and doing everything correctly and legally but they just auto assume you are defrauding someone or instantly a money launderer its very concerning. 

Did you close your account with Monzo?

I nearly did. I withdrew my investments, but kept my current account open. All of my recent purchases have been made through Revolut.

[MackWhite]

I'm with Monzo, it happened 3 times in two years. Every single time all was resolved under 3h. I had more problems with Halifax sending the payment to be honest. Where I sit big boys don't want new kids on the block taking small businesses in as all transaction cannot be monitored.

[neilthenurse]

While I understand that the banks have a duty to protect customers, my issue was in the extremely intrusive manner in which Monzo dealt with the issue. They assumed and told me "you have been scammed". They then started questioning other transfers on my account to ONE OF MY OWN ACCOUNTS with another bank, asking if I was using that account to pay for the item that I would't tell them I was purchasing. When I didn't engage in the online chat, she said she would phone me to discuss further. Very aggressive on the phone, making me feel even angrier!

[ZRPMs]

39 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

@ZRPMs Which banks were involved? Totally understand if you would rather not name them, but just curious. 

My business bank NatWest. Don't really want to mention sellers without permission. To be honest. I think it's all of them.

33 minutes ago, MackWhite said:

Those aren't Your funds unfortunately they are owed to You by the bank and bank can decide will it pay out. Common misconception.

Singing to the choir there. However, They are our funds, not money. Once we make a deposit in a bank, We have a call or charge on the funds. Ownership of the money transfers to the bank and we have made an unsecured loan to the bank. Our statements or account are merely accounting ledgers for the bank to keep track of the loan we've just made to them. The reason, In part, for the FSCS £85,000 bank protection is to install some extra level of trust for the depositor. This is all a very simplistic view of the situation but folk start to switch off as you delve into the nuances of it. I find it fascinating really. But then again I think I'm quite sad.

Edited 2 hours ago by ZRPMs

[MackWhite]

3 minutes ago, ZRPMs said:

My business bank NatWest. Don't rally want to mention sellers without permission. To be honest. I think it's all of them.

Singing to the choir there. However, They are our funds not money. Once we make a deposit in a bank, We have a call or charge on the funds. Ownership of the money transfers to the bank and we have made an unsecured loan to the bank. Our statements or account are merely accounting ledgers for the bank to keep track of the loan we've just made to them. The reason, In part, for the FSCS £85,000 bank protection is to install some extra level of trust for the depositor. This is all a very simplistic view of the situation but folk start to switch off as you delve into the nuances of it. I find it fascinating really. But then again I think I'm quite sad.

If they would only behave that way, personally I think they are cherry picking regulations. Most probably You could challenge it at court... If You can afford it 

[neilthenurse]

I had an issue twice with Revolut. Once they held a payment while I answered a few online questions, holding the payment for a further 4 hours to give me time to think about the transaction. The payment was then released without further delay. A second payment to another forum member was outright blocked due to the sort code being flagged as dangerous, having had multiple frauds from that online money institution. Both these issues made me feel more secure due to they way it was handled.

Edited 2 hours ago by neilthenurse

[ZRPMs]

1 minute ago, MackWhite said:

If they would only behave that way, personally I think they are cherry picking regulations. Most probably You could challenge it at court... If You can afford it 

In a nut shell. Yes, they most likely cherry pick and employ creative interpretations to the laws and regs. However, it's backed and pushed by HMRC and Government also. You just can't fight those odd's. And the other part of it all that's making it easier to implement all of these measures. Cashless society. Christ I sound like a conspiracy doctorate. However, If we need permission to use our funds. Do we own them? "You'll own nothing and be happy". Quite hard currently to have third party control on cash, but it is becoming obsolete.  

[SilverRich]

46 minutes ago, neilthenurse said:

I'm happy to name M*nzo for locking my account after assuming I had been scammed. Not on suspicion of, they used the phrase "you have been scammed". They were extremely intrusive, initially holding the transfer, then when I refused to co-operate, they locked my account. Maybe not the smartest move, but I held my ground and they eventually unlocked my account.

Slightly different but completely out of the blue, Monzo emailed me to say they have decided to close my account and that I need to find another. Absolutely no reason given (I know they have no requirement to do so). 

It was an everyday standard joint account. Monzo are the absolute worst. 

[neilthenurse]

1 minute ago, SilverRich said:

Slightly different but completely out of the blue, Monzo emailed me to say they have decided to close my account and that I need to find another. Absolutely no reason given (I know they have no requirement to do so). 

It was an everyday standard joint account. Monzo are the absolute worst. 

Perhaps they believed you were using the account for business purposes?

Edited 2 hours ago by neilthenurse

[SilverRich]

2 minutes ago, neilthenurse said:

Perhaps they believed you were using the account for business purposes?

Doubtful. It was just a standard joint account for bills etc. Nothing out of the ordinary. 

[Brit2023]

3 minutes ago, SilverRich said:

Doubtful. It was just a standard joint account for bills etc. Nothing out of the ordinary. 

Maybe the other account holder is closing it and running off with the postman?

seriously try Starling bank if you want a “virtual bank”( they are all heading that way anyway)😵‍💫 

[SilverRich]

1 minute ago, Brit2023 said:

Maybe the other account holder is closing it and running off with the postman?

seriously try Starling bank if you want a “virtual bank”( they are all heading that way anyway)😵‍💫 

This was about 3 years ago - I've already forgiven the postman for that. 

[neilthenurse]

Maybe we should start another thread started where we vote for our favourite bank!

[MackWhite]

25 minutes ago, ZRPMs said:

In a nut shell. Yes, they most likely cherry pick and employ creative interpretations to the laws and regs. However, it's backed and pushed by HMRC and Government also. You just can't fight those odd's. And the other part of it all that's making it easier to implement all of these measures. Cashless society. Christ I sound like a conspiracy doctorate. However, If we need permission to use our funds. Do we own them? "You'll own nothing and be happy". Quite hard currently to have third party control on cash, but it is becoming obsolete.  

Don't be too harsh on Yourself, at some point we all sound like that while describing changes undergoing all around us.