closed Lion of England 1oz gold coin (reduced)

[9x883]

I'm sorry to hear the news @HowardW this is very poor behaviour indeed. I do hope this gets sorted ASAP. 

[WolfStacker]

It is not a pleasure for anyone to go through something like this and I'm sorry to hear that.
I hope the seller is ok and everything will be resolved as soon as possible. Let's hope that what is happening now is not with bad intentions
All the best to everyone

Edited July 5 by WolfStacker

[ccfcpaul]

Wowsa. I bought from this guy, actually paying crypto which would be an easy scam if you're a scammer. I was also warned that he could be dodgy Yet decided to go ahead for drunken "jokes", I think I even said **** it

 

This effectively added to his feedback.. this isn't a joking matter though. I am going to double check what I received.  But as gesture I would like to donate something that I received from him.

 

I would urge anyone in the same situation as me to do the same too but it might not be possible for some.

 

Truly is horrid and it has no place on here

[ChrisSilver]

Just looking into this now. Hopefully the seller gets back and ships the item. 

17 hours ago, sarumike said:

But this is 2/3 such incidents in as many months. V low % in terms of number of users but doesn't look good for TSF reputation. 

It is unfortunate I agree. They have all been trades with members who are not long standing members. To reduce risk when trading we do advise members to read this topic:

Although not guaranteed, the risk of trading with accounts that are 3+ years with long trading history and active posts and Premium Membership etc should be greatly reduced. Any account that is under 3 years is still classified as a new account. 

This particular account is than 4 months old. 

Members are of course free to decide who they trade with, though please be aware of the risks. 

[SilverRich]

6 minutes ago, ChrisSilver said:

Just looking into this now. Hopefully the seller gets back and ships the item. 

It is unfortunate I agree. They have all been trades with members who are not long standing members. To reduce risk when trading we do advise members to read this topic:

Although not guaranteed, the risk of trading with accounts that are 3+ years with long trading history and active posts and Premium Membership etc should be greatly reduced. Any account that is under 3 years is still classified as a new account. 

This particular account is than 4 months old. 

Members are of course free to decide who they trade with, though please be aware of the risks. 

Well that's me buggered for selling anything on here then. 😄

Guys I promise I'm not dodgy. 

[ChrisSilver]

I have written to @johnthebeard asking them to get back to the buyer as their earliest convenience. 

[GoodAsGold]

14 hours ago, SilverRich said:

Well that's me buggered for selling anything on here then. 😄

Guys I promise I'm not dodgy. 

The best way to prove it is by sending your item to an established member first, in good faith that you’ll receive payment once your item has been received.

My first sale was in respect of a Wanted post early this year by the very trusted member @Touvex who sensibly asked for the coin to be sent to him first, which I did. He paid me instantly upon receipt. 

I’d made plenty of purchases from others over my 6 years of membership, quite a few for 4 figure sums, so that would be my reasoning for mutual trust now that I’ve started selling a couple more coins.

I know you were only making a joke, but I think my opening statement is the best way to go.

[James32]

14 hours ago, ChrisSilver said:

3 years is still classified as a new account. 

Dam..I'm still a noob?

[James32]

34 minutes ago, James32 said:

Dam..I'm still a noob?

Actually just checked, I'm over the threshold 😆 

[NGMD]

Sold a lot of valuable items to numerous sellers. 
I would never have seen this one coming and hope it was just an innocent error.

[Davidcarry]

To @ChrisSilver, just thinking about this issue and how difficult it may be for new members to trade. If the Silver Forum had an account that members money could be paid into intra deals, eg if an item was for sale for £1000, that money could be paid into a Silver forum holding account by the buyer, have it acknowledged by the seller who then sends the item to the buyer. When the buyer gets the item they then inform the Silver forum to make the payment to the seller. I know this would take up a resource but it could be paid for by being a premium member. Only premium members could avail themselves of this process. It would encourage members to be premium members. Obviously only a suggestion but it could save some heartache waiting for something to arrive that you have paid for.

i have traded a lot with forum members and have had very good and satisfactory transactions. Everyone that I have dealt with has been honest and friendly, I would hope this would continue. Great Forum, glad I joined.

David

 

 

 

 

 

[HowardW]

Thanks for the messages of support on here and privately. Nothing from the guy so far.

I do just want to draw your attention to how vulnerable you are and to suggest a simple step we can take...

 

@James32 pointed out, correctly, that the moderator has the guy's address. However due to Data Protection he can only share it with the police - not with me to start a civil action.

In this case, the guy has such an unusual surname and the location is identifiable so I believe I have him on 192.com and can buy his address, though any help would be appreciated if anyone knows it (e.g., has sold to him).

But you can see what would happen otherwise - complain to police, get crime reference number, police don't investigate, moderator can't share address = can't make a civil claim against the guy as you have nowhere to send it.

So my suggestion is to give ourselves extra protection - ask for a copy of the driving licence (which has the address) and match the name to the name on the bank account you are paying before sending any money. (Don't pay to Paypal as you can't match the name and address on the driving licence to anything). At least that way, you can sue the seller for non-delivery.

 

[sarumike]

21 minutes ago, Davidcarry said:

To @ChrisSilver, just thinking about this issue and how difficult it may be for new members to trade. If the Silver Forum had an account that members money could be paid into intra deals, eg if an item was for sale for £1000, that money could be paid into a Silver forum holding account by the buyer, have it acknowledged by the seller who then sends the item to the buyer. When the buyer gets the item they then inform the Silver forum to make the payment to the seller. I know this would take up a resource but it could be paid for by being a premium member. Only premium members could avail themselves of this process. It would encourage members to be premium members. Obviously only a suggestion but it could save some heartache waiting for something to arrive that you have paid for.

i have traded a lot with forum members and have had very good and satisfactory transactions. Everyone that I have dealt with has been honest and friendly, I would hope this would continue. Great Forum, glad I joined.

David

 

 

 

 

 

You're suggesting an  escrow account, to hold the money securely. Don't know how much of an overhead this would add. However these issues only seem to occur on high value transactions (funny that). So your above suggestion if adopted should only apply for eg £1500+. 

[Davidcarry]

I merely mentioned this as a suggestion to resolve issues like this. The forum could put a small charge on the transaction or get more revenue from premium members to fund the account management. It could be up to individual members whether they wished to use the service or just trade peer to peer as now. It could help keep people safe when dealing with people they may need to build up trust with. It would also make it easier for new members to trade. It is similar to the great work that Backyardbullion does for some new members.

[HowardW]

Just now, Davidcarry said:

I merely mentioned this as a suggestion to resolve issues like this. The forum could put a small charge on the transaction or get more revenue from premium members to fund the account management. It could be up to individual members whether they wished to use the service or just trade peer to peer as now. It could help keep people safe when dealing with people they may need to build up trust with. It would also make it easier for new members to trade. It is similar to the great work that Backyardbullion does for some new members.

The problem is that providing an escrow service officially requires FCA regulation.

There are professional escrow companies out there offering relatively cheap escrow services and I did contact one a few years ago as I was looking for a way to beat eBay/Paypal fees in a 100% safe way. It was difficult - they would need to do money laundering checks on  both sides AND the seller would need to video sealing the coin in the pack and the buyer would need to video opening the pack.... that only covered empty envelopes as who know what would happen if the coin was a fake.

[Noxemo]

Another thing maybe is to put aside a small percentage of the monthly premium fees into a pot and should an issue arise like this then a vote can be done to use the funds to make the victim whole. Once all evidence is reviewed and is satisfactory to members. 

[theman73]

15 minutes ago, HowardW said:

The problem is that providing an escrow service officially requires FCA regulation.

Me too I was looking into this, and I think is possible if the people don't pay for the services but donate like £3 to sustain the system. 

[modofantasma]

Perhaps worth a new topic of it's own but the whole draw for many to TSF is low hassle peer to peer sales accepting that there is always a risk (however low the probability is of there being an issue)

 

[ccfcpaul]

I believe there's a well known youtuber on here that provides an go-between service as such if it's needed. It's not free but it might be worth while if anyone is worried about trust. Which is understandable when sometimes dealing with a high value.

Trouble with this situation is that John has sold quite a bit on here. Personally hope it's a genuine issue John's had and he's trying his hardest to fix it. 

The only problem with a "sustain the service" kind of optional tax is when both parties are in disagreement of what's happened.

(sent a fake coin/received real but saying it's fake) - identifying who's telling the truth could be near impossible. Like eBay, usually lands on the side of the buyer. This place would have to make a decision, which is going to negatively impact someone.

So it'll become a mine field and that pot would become a scammers target.

In theory. Someone receives real coin, says it's fake. The seller gets wrongly accused and the buyer gets the pot and the coin, keeping their reputation in tact whilst making everyone feel bad for them.

I don't think it's in the forums best interest to do it. Although utilising the go between could be worthwhile. 

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

I understand why some of these suggestions are being made but it opens a massive can of worms and complications for TSF and the rest of us

A few are basically calling to copy a DNM with a multi-sig escrow system but with added KYC. Who is going to administrate all of this and what currency is being used? The standard charge is 4-10% per transaction. Are you going to pay that premium on top of your gold or silver? I think not. If it gets to that stage you might as well only buy from dealers and pay them to do the work

Just my 2 cents 🤷‍♂️

Thoughts and prayers with the buyer first and foremost but also with the seller. I hope this get settled amicably 

[Upsidedown]

12 hours ago, James32 said:

Actually just checked, I'm over the threshold 😆 

Chris! we need to raise the threshold...

[James32]

3 hours ago, Noxemo said:

Another thing maybe is to put aside a small percentage of the monthly premium fees into a pot and should an issue arise like this then a vote can be done to use the funds to make the victim whole. Once all evidence is reviewed and is satisfactory to members. 

I've suggested this before, but it was pointed out that it's basically a public banner saying 'come shaft us as we are insured '

[theman73]

On 05/07/2024 at 11:52, HowardW said:

It is sold and I have certainly paid for it ... but it's day 15 and there's been lots of excuses but no coin and no refund.

Any other members reading this should think very carefully before paying up front for anything from this seller

I have his details if you need them

[sarumike]

6 hours ago, Davidcarry said:

I merely mentioned this as a suggestion to resolve issues like this. The forum could put a small charge on the transaction or get more revenue from premium members to fund the account management. It could be up to individual members whether they wished to use the service or just trade peer to peer as now. It could help keep people safe when dealing with people they may need to build up trust with. It would also make it easier for new members to trade. It is similar to the great work that Backyardbullion does for some new members.

I know mate. Just trying to point out the overheads involved. It's sad that a place like TSF which should be based on trust and respect is being abused by a small number of people. The whole point of P2P transactions is to cut out the middle man and reduce costs. For me personally, I'd be reluctant to buy an oz of gold from tsf unless I really trusted the seller. I refuse to buy gold from eBay for same reason. It's really sad. Maybe paying over the odds from likes of Atkinsons, BBP and chards is the safest option 😞

 

[Upsidedown]

2 minutes ago, sarumike said:

It's sad that a place like TSF which should be based on trust and respect is being abused by a small number of people. 

Such is the world we live in. We all need to be a bit more careful, although I still trust TSF the most.