Paying off the mortgage, one brick at a time

[Oldun]

That is called risk assessment for the hard of hearing 😂

(gets coat)

[KDave]

3 hours ago, Oldun said:

At the very least there should be nurseries available for free for teachers, nurses, firemen and policemen etc......people who actually contribute to the wellbeing of the society imho.

If government runs it like a business cheap then I would agree maybe at a stretch, but as a lesser of two evils. Everyone should have to pay to use it though, it should not be yet another service paid for wastefully.

As soon as it is 'free', everyone wants a piece, so they can drop off the kids on their day off. If its free for the people who contribute it won't stay that way, it will become 'NEED based' which is BS - soon it will be charity workers, MP's, council workers, military, NHS, benefits recipients so they can 'job hunt' (go to the pub) - soon millions of people getting 'free' childcare on the backs of the private sector workers again. No thanks, let the market decide who gets childcare. The cure to high prices is high prices, the market will fix it, either through higher wages or through competition. As I say, government can be competition intermediary at absolute worst case, that would help for a short while especially in places where land values are high (london being prime case). Eventually all that happens though is it kills off competitive childcare except for the very rich, and you will get two tier childcare, one for the rich, one for everyone else. Just as with healthcare and schools, and everything else you can think of. 

[Oldun]

If the country I live in can provide government run nurseries from 0-7 years old at £220 a month Mon-Fri 730-6pm with an option to extend to 10pm for a small fee and Sat pm with only Sundays and national holidays off, why cant The UK ? It makes zero sense.....and I live in Tokyo, one of the most expensive cities on earth. 

[Cornishfarmer]

3 hours ago, Oldun said:

If the country I live in can provide government run nurseries from 0-7 years old at £220 a month Mon-Fri 730-6pm with an option to extend to 10pm for a small fee and Sat pm with only Sundays and national holidays off, why cant The UK ? It makes zero sense.....and I live in Tokyo, one of the most expensive cities on earth. 

Quick calculations £1/hour for child care.    Some money must be coming from other places to pay for it.  Or they don’t have the rules and regs here where it’s 2-3 babies per adult.    Child care is a difficult one why should the government subsidies?    If someone is getting a high wage they can afford it but if someone is getting a low wage it’s up to the employer to pay better wages.      I’m a bit out the loop now but say a supermarket pays minimum wage, then the worker gets income support, free childcare etc, who is the one that’s gaining more?     

[Oldun]

Obviously, it is government run and the citizens’ taxes subsidize it. Rather that than like you lot see your taxes go to Brussels and overpaid quangos, instead of looking after yourselves first.

1 nurse for every 2-3 babies but less needed when older... my kid is in a class of 22 and there are always between 2-3 “nurses.”

The point is that it can be done and The UK is woeful in its care of its own citizens.

[Oldun]

1 hour ago, Cornishfarmer said:

Child care is a difficult one why should the government subsidies?    If someone is getting a high wage they can afford it but if someone is getting a low wage it’s up to the employer to pay better wages.      I’m a bit out the loop now but say a supermarket pays minimum wage, then the worker gets income support, free childcare etc, who is the one that’s gaining more?     

Child care is not difficult....you subsidize Europe. Surely your own citizens are more important!

As for “up to the employer” that is a lovely idea and unrealistic....

Taxes should be used for the benefit of its citizens. People pay taxes and some of that money goes on things they may never use, for example hospitals, libraries, swimming pools etc. childcare is one of the more pressing matters for the overall happiness and wellbeing of its citizens. It produces a better society for the country and if you need me to explain how, you really are a little bit out of touch, no offense intended.

[Oldun]

The link below went up 1 hour ago.

 

Most of this is going to pay worker pension funds, overpaid quangos and advisors and loans...it will not help you in real terms at all. 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-47442652

[Oldun]

In Japan, Council Tax is called Residence Tax and each working adult pays it, regardless of how many in a house. It is based on what each person made the year before fyi.

[KDave]

You still have to pay for childcare, either personally while you have kids as now, or if paid for by tax then its throughout your entire working life even if you don't have kids. Which is fair? 

Personal choice personal responsibility imo. People don't get that these days, they want government to pay for everything and take as little responsibility as possible. I blame gorden brown. 

[KDave]

2 hours ago, Cornishfarmer said:

Quick calculations £1/hour for child care.    Some money must be coming from other places to pay for it.  Or they don’t have the rules and regs here where it’s 2-3 babies per adult.    Child care is a difficult one why should the government subsidies?    If someone is getting a high wage they can afford it but if someone is getting a low wage it’s up to the employer to pay better wages.      I’m a bit out the loop now but say a supermarket pays minimum wage, then the worker gets income support, free childcare etc, who is the one that’s gaining more?     

The employer gains, wages can be kept low. 

There are several reason wages have not gone up in real terms for the past twenty years, but it's mostly thanks to government 'help' as you say. 

[Cornishfarmer]

2 hours ago, Oldun said:

Taxes should be used for the benefit of its citizens. People pay taxes and some of that money goes on things they may never use, for example hospitals, libraries, swimming pools etc. childcare is one of the more pressing matters for the overall happiness and wellbeing of its citizens. It produces a better society for the country and if you need me to explain how, you really are a little bit out of touch, no offense intended.

What I’m getting at is, the hundreds of thousands of people working at supermarkets with kids, if they get income support, childcare support,  council tax support etc the supermarkets that are making hundreds of millions £ and the government are subsidising their wages

[RoughDog]

This thread sounds a bit political.

There seems to be at least a few philosophies.  In the extreme I see it as - 

1.  The individual philosophy of pay for only what is used by the individual.

2.  The social or group philosophy of everyone pays into a pot and the pot is paid to those that need it.

 

If the individual can easily afford to pay for all their needs then option 1 could cost them less money.  For a poor person who cannot afford to live, option 1 would cause them to suffer and most likely turn to crime.

Personally I would rather live in a society where everyone is happy and can at least afford to live rather then be a very rich person while everyone else suffers.

 

 

 

[zeusss4]

I have a very big problem with the way free places are given out to children........

Our little one has been going for two days per week since Just before he turned 1

This was at a cost of £50 per day, which was fine, stretched our budget but we payed every month 

When a child turns two, if you don’t work you get 16 hours free per week! Never mind we still paid each month 

Around this time the government announced 30 hours free childcare for 3 years old for everyone. This was a big sigh of relief. Our £440 nursery bill each month was quite crippling as we aren’t big earners yet we both work hard. 

Our son turned 3 on the 2nd of April. This year Easter landed on this weekend meaning the Monday, 1st of April was a bank holiday. This is also the first day of term however since it was a bank holiday we assumed the first day of term time would be the 2nd of April, the day he turned 3 as schools are closed on Easter Monday. 

To our shock because of this we had to continue paying our nursery fees until September as we missed out on one day yet the non - workers were still able to drop there kids off, free of charge!!!!!

Sorry about the off topic RANT 😭

[KDave]

I find this topic so interesting but I will say no more on this thread, we should make one to discuss this society/tax stuff. 

[Bullionbilly]

Well done on paying it off @vand !

Shame about the nursury cost ( ouch )

[Bullionbilly]

@ChrisSIlver is there a way to transfer / copy the off topic posts over to a new thread as per @KDave's idea ?  Maybe titled general society/tax stuff ? Could be a good thread.

 

[ChrisSilver]

1 minute ago, Bullionbilly said:

@ChrisSIlver is there a way to transfer / copy the off topic posts over to a new thread as per @KDave's idea ?  Maybe titled general society/tax stuff ? Could be a good thread.

If someone posts something completely off topic it is possible to split that and make a new topic out of it. Have done that in the past.

I do feel it is better to make a new topic if someone wants to discuss a new topic and keep the current topic on track, this is better for all members viewing topics. As don’t forget there are lots of members who  will join in the future and then read old topics, if helps if the posts in the topic are relevant to that topic.

If you notice a post in a topic and you feel that it warrents being made into a new topic as is off topic completely, please feel free to press the report button and we will look into it and decide if it’s better to do that. Sometimes it is much better to split a post into a new topic as the member posting it will get more direct answers to their post, so I feel it’s better for everyone (if the post warrants a new topic that is)

[Oldun]

1 hour ago, KDave said:

You still have to pay for childcare, either personally while you have kids as now, or if paid for by tax then its throughout your entire working life even if you don't have kids. Which is fair? 

Personal choice personal responsibility imo. People don't get that these days, they want government to pay for everything and take as little responsibility as possible. I blame gorden brown. 

Everyone pulls together as being part of a responsible and caring society. The road you seem to be suggesting is one of Victorian Britain with no social care and poor houses.

[Oldun]

2 hours ago, KDave said:

You still have to pay for childcare, either personally while you have kids as now, or if paid for by tax then its throughout your entire working life even if you don't have kids. Which is fair? 

Personal choice personal responsibility imo. People don't get that these days, they want government to pay for everything and take as little responsibility as possible. I blame gorden brown. 

There are many things everybody pays towards via taxes which the indivadual may or may never need. You do it, so do I. I do not mind if it promotes a healthy happy society. Otherwise, it is just an every person for himself and I dont want to live in a society like that.

Now, clearly some are taking unfair advantage but that is not a reason to smear everyone and the system with the same brush.

[Oldun]

The Times leads on its own investigation which it claims reveals that parents are being asked by state schools to donate thousands of pounds to pay for teacher salaries, textbooks and equipment - as well as building repairs. It also finds space on its front page to mention new rules issued by the royal family to abusive social media users.

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-the-papers-47449773

 

The Times leads with an investigation which it says has revealed the extent to which schools in England are relying on donations from parents to buy textbooks and pay staff salaries.

It says more than 200 schools asked for money in the past year, with about half specifying amounts - and one asking for £1,200 per child per year.

The paper also found that head teachers were cleaning toilets and washing dishes because of staff cuts. 

Its editorial says this is not a sustainable way to fund the kind of world-class education system that the younger generation needs.

 

Wow, things really are going badly...ordinary parents being asked for money in state schools....1,700 a month (doesnt cover summer and holidays) for nursery school....

I really feel for the original poster let alone others in much more difficult situations.

[AuricGoldfinger]

Nice one @vand your a man with a plan like myself so now what? Or is the nursery fee just swallowing any accomplishment lol

[Martlet]

5 hours ago, Oldun said:

The Times leads on its own investigation which it claims reveals that parents are being asked by state schools to donate thousands of pounds to pay for teacher salaries, textbooks and equipment - as well as building repairs. It also finds space on its front page to mention new rules issued by the royal family to abusive social media users.

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-the-papers-47449773

 

The Times leads with an investigation which it says has revealed the extent to which schools in England are relying on donations from parents to buy textbooks and pay staff salaries.

It says more than 200 schools asked for money in the past year, with about half specifying amounts - and one asking for £1,200 per child per year.

The paper also found that head teachers were cleaning toilets and washing dishes because of staff cuts. 

Its editorial says this is not a sustainable way to fund the kind of world-class education system that the younger generation needs.

 

Wow, things really are going badly...ordinary parents being asked for money in state schools....1,700 a month (doesnt cover summer and holidays) for nursery school....

I really feel for the original poster let alone others in much more difficult situations.

I think you are being caught by sensationalist tabloid journalism, drawing upon isolated incidents to paint a picture across the country.  The article doesn't name the single instance asking for £1200, i expect there is much detail to that being brushed aside. 200 schools out of ~32000 is about 0.6%, on the other hand i wouldnt be surprised by 100% of schools asking for money.  they are always fund raising for something or other and always have done, so scope of the story its a very messed up.

There will be some schools with poor management facing difficulties as funding allocations are adjusted, and this will be blown up into a crisis of funding, while vast majority of schools carry on.  Overall funding to education has been static, with some movement between types of schools and change of focus affecting some more than others.

The £1700/mth childcare sounds like an outlier, multiples above typical childcare costs (which are high, because we have quite high ratio of carers to children). 

 

[Oldun]

Sensaltionalist journalism ? I hardly think The Times quoting actual figures is sensationalist journalism my friend.

200 schools is not an insignificant number at all ! That would mean roughly 4,000- 15,000 students are affected (no figures for the size of schools) and would also affect the lives of their parents by being asked for money.

If you add the fact that Council Taxes are going up by an average of something like 2-4% depending on where you live and that is hardly sensationalist....unless you are inferring that these events are not actually happening ?

 

edit...council tax in ENGLAND will be going up by an average of 4.5%.....would love to see the figures for The Scots, Welsh and N Irish......

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-47442652

2nd edit found it at the bottom of the same article 

 

In Cardiff, council leaders set an increase of 4.9% while Pembrokeshire saw a 9.92% rise and Conwy 9.6%.

Taxpayers in Scotland will see bills rise up to 4.79%.

Northern Ireland has a rates system instead of council tax.

 

So I hardly think that, when everything is put together that going a little easier on hardworking parents faced with an avalanche of increasing taxes, a little more help for them would not go amiss....

 

[vand]

18 hours ago, AuricGoldfinger said:

Nice one @vand your a man with a plan like myself so now what? Or is the nursery fee just swallowing any accomplishment lol

Nursery fees are budgeted for, but damn, are they making a dent in our savings rate lol. At least its only for a couple of years 

Tax efficiency drives my thinking right now. So the priority shifts to both wife & I to max our pension contributions and run our pensions to at least ~£250k. This will likely take 4-5 years. We should be able to shield about £20k a year from the taxman if we do this. This is a quite staggering - I would go as far as to say life-changing - amount if you just do it steadily and allow it to accumulate and compound over the years. I implore people who say pensions as not worth it or too much unknowable to reconsider their position - you are dismissing your single best opportunity for efficient accumulation of wealth. 

Why £250k target? That should be roughly the amount that its possible to get back out easily without having to consider paying any tax on the way out, if the pension is your only source of income. After that it gets more complicated, especially if you have other sources of income as we hopefully will, but that should be a good target to aim for as a baseline.

After the retirement accounts any excess funds will be split between stockpiling cash for the deposit for eventually buying a bigger house in 2-3 years, and filling up an SS-ISA, but these are much lower priority.  I'll continue to buy PMs but this is also much lower priority.

When baby is out of nursery we will also likely start J-ISA and L-ISA nestegg for them

[Oldun]

Don’t forget, the government can change anything anytime it wants. It can even backdate. Stay light and always pay your bills. You voted for em, you got em (democratic majority, so let’s not open up that can of worms otherwise go sit in a field or start your own country - cf start your own revolution/ political party)