Time to drag the Royal Mint's business model in to this century?

[BarryWoods]

ducking out for now - lots to do sadly  - may pop in this evening/

[Oldun]

12 hours ago, BarryWoods said:

I asked dealer direct - after a lot of evasiveness before paying for Portrait - is this a direct allocation from the RM - He said YES - I even asked are you sure - YES

Buy that point I knew that was a lie. (RM had told me they had no relationship with them (so how did they get that exclusive coin?) 

I've spelled  all this out already here - in detail. go back and read it if interested, I think a lot of comments have been thrown in here, to bury it.

I do not need to go back and read as I have and my interpretation is as posted. So, do you have actual physical, legal evidence (recordings, emails from the RM admitting they willfully engaged in an act of deception in kahoots with the dealer and specifically as, if you do not then you are  to quote, Shakespeare, “pissing into the wind,” and trying to drag any dealer who tries to post here into your web to try to use as evidence.

 

I offer neither encouragement nor admonishment.

 

But, as the great man once said. (and do not get me wrong, I admire your gumption and perseverance. They are fine qualities. But I am not sure how much of this you can get get to stick regardless of any past editorial tabloid success. If you are right, you will be proven so).
 

Anyway, back to the man, Kenny Rogers, The Gambler.

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Oldun

[James32]

2 minutes ago, Oldun said:

I do not need to go back and read as I have and my interpretation is as posted. So, do you have actual physical, legal evidence (recordings, emails from the RM admitting they willfully engaged in an act of deception in kahoots with the dealer and specifically as, if you do not then you are  to quote, Shakespeare, “pissing into the wind,” and trying to drag any dealer who tries to post here into your web to jse as evidence.

 

I offer neither encouragement nor admonishment.

 

But, as the great man once said. Do not get me wrong, I admire your gumption and perseverance. They are fine qualities. But I am not sure how much of this you can get get to stick regardless of any past edotorial tabloid success. If you are right, you will be proven so.  
 

Anyway, back to the “man.”

 

 

 

 

 

Best part of this whole shambles 👍👍

[dicker]

T w e n t y - n i n e  pages and the “dumpster” fire still rages.

 

[paulmerton]

Just now, dicker said:

T w e n t y - n i n e  pages and the “dumpster” fire still rages.

 

Phew, I thought my notifications had broken for the past 57 minutes  

[dicker]

1 minute ago, paulmerton said:

Phew, I thought my notifications had broken for the past 57 minutes  

Glad to have been of some small use to the forum. 
 

Humbly,

Dicker

[dicker]

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, BarryWoods said:

ducking out for now - lots to do sadly  - may pop in this evening/

ducking out for now

Did you spell that correctly?

- lots to do sadly  

Be positive, and try to do it happily.

- may pop in this evening/

Thanks for letting us all know, so that we don't need to worry that you might have topped yourself, or been eliminated by the RMCS department.

😎

[AndrewSL76]

Every single person who comments after this comment will never be able to buy a coin from the Royal Mint ever again. I am a wizard and so let it be so.

Ignore and move on? Stop throwing petrol at this s**t house of a thread? When your children demand attention, do you give it?

G’night.

[LawrenceChard]

14 minutes ago, dicker said:

T w e n t y - n i n e  pages and the “dumpster” fire still rages.

 

Do I hear "30" anywhere?

😎

Just now, AndrewSL76 said:

Every single person who comments after this comment will never be able to buy a coin from the Royal Mint ever again. I am a wizard and so let it be so.

Ignore and move on? Stop throwing petrol at this s**t house of a thread? When your children demand attention, do you give it?

G’night.

You're off to bed early!

... on a promise?

😎

[GoldDiggerDave]

@AndrewSL76 your off to bed early to save on the electricity bill……..As you know your RM invoice is due soon.

im only laughing as I’m tuning my guitar and getting ready to go out busking to pay  mine! 
 

 

[Oldun]

12 hours ago, BarryWoods said:

how the dealer got guaranteed both coins (not availble to general public) - is a factor - If they were MM that bought direct - that makes a trade account - imho -  then marked up massively.. very opaque.

Surely “how” the dealer guaranteed both coins is defined as being the agreed business arrangement between the dealer and the private owner and not any legal liability of the RM? Or am I missing something ?

And again, if you can prove in a court of law that the RM  deliberately acted in kahoots with the said dealer (in your  claim) , with the sole and particular intention of misrepresenting itself to you (to my simple mind, clearly not provable or likely in the eyes of the law) as representatives of then all power  to you. You must have a bleeding good lawyer, as theeast end boyz would say

 

But trust me, this will not wash in a tabloid if you are wrong, Quite the opposite. You could open yourself to a major defamatory counterclaim.

 

 

And I know this much just by being a pleb  Gawd knows what actually major league lawyers would do…other than drain all plaintiffs bank accounts and buy all thecoins while laughingand quaffing and tipple of choice !

But, fight the good fight Barry and if you areright, it will come out.

 

If anything sums this marvellously indignant debate (in this 

epic of a thread) of what is right or wrong whilst argiung amongst ourselves about the absurd, this conceptual masterpiece by Monty nails it to the wall, everytime.

 

Oram  I missing something ?

Edited February 11, 2022 by Oldun

[Petra]

4 hours ago, SilverDrum said:

Barry does have a point, tho it may not be concise. Saw a article today stating that Ford are having to do exactly what @BarryWoodsis talking about 👀

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/gm-and-ford-warn-dealerships-stop-charging-over-sticker-price-or-well-cut-supply

He concluded: “The dealer represents the manufacturer, it’s the person you deal with. Right now, they’re not representing the brands very well by trying to jack people around.”

For those of us mere mortals, quite often when buying certain coins the dealers are cheaper than the RM as well as free postage. So what is a rrp for any coin?

 

[Oldun]

16 minutes ago, Petra said:

For those of us mere mortals, quite often when buying certain coins the dealers are cheaper than the RM as well as free postage. So what is a rrp for any coin?

 

The key to all of this legally is “recommended” as regards the rrp…...it defers any and all legal responsibility  beyond the initial payment in its entirety and in accordance with clauses xyz etc etc etc etc blah  blah…(most people switch off or pay serious bones to be told at this point)….you get the point…easy to be a tabloid star….much harder to swing it by the courts….

 

But, if you have researched and paid for (or educated yourself on) the groundwork, by all means test the legal system. It is not always right and should be held to account in the case where it is patently inappropriate or wrong or open to consideration…..rejoice that you live in a judicial parliamentary system, right or wrong where what you claim is actually cared about or given a shoot  about…..use it well and if you have a case, you will win.

 

Is the legal system perfect ? No, of course not. It reflects us, its citizens, humans. We are, by definition, imperfect.  Of course, the legal system should be challenged and adjusted where found lacking.

But, Barry, and here is the point, are you legally sound in this claim ?

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Oldun

[Oldun]

I am “old and tired.” I will leave it to you youngsters to figure it out.

 

Have at it… not haveatit as I first typed although…..and yes the ladies are impressed by the male pectoral before anyone asks and I get…oh what it is it….. cancelled ?

Edited February 11, 2022 by Oldun

[LawrenceChard]

3 minutes ago, Oldun said:

haveatit...

I preferred the original version....

...but...

Are we restricted to only one per customer?

I would prefer a matching pair.

😎

[LawrenceChard]

This whole thread reminds me of:

 

Although this could equally be a feeble attempt to get to page 30!

😎

[Oldun]

10 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

This whole thread reminds me of:

 

Although this could equally be a feeble attempt to get to page 30!

😎

Gosh, I remember rhe original crouched around  a flickering tv…

Edited February 11, 2022 by Oldun

[Gordy]

Just now, BarryWoods said:

No - not a reporter - I am a pissed off RM customer - with an account manager- if i was a reporter i would not have taken this to the RM to fix.. I would have written about it..

 

I felt ripped off, as a customer buying a Gothic Crown from Bullion House

OK, well can I offer some advice then?

The investing/collecting of PM's needs knowledge when buying anything as the markets change quickly researching the various avenues is very helpful when entering into this murky world of PM's

Any new member on here who is new to this gets as much help as needed when they ask and some just scour the threads to learn

There are small buyers on here who can only afford little purchases when they have the funds to very large big buyers who have a wealth of knowledge.

When looking for what you want you should try different dealers and sellers and even look abroad. There are avenues for buying not just in Europe but as far away as Hong Kong and the USA/Canada and these can be worth looking at as sometimes you can buy what you want from these companies cheaper than in the UK and that's including shipping costs and VAT costs. I have bought from far and wide both bullion and semi-numismatics without difficulty.

It just takes time and effort and investing your time wisely.

We all make mistakes when buying the shiny stuff and an intelligent buyer will learn from it and move on and make the next purchase more informed and with less risk to getting fingers burned.

Whether you are an invester in big bucks or a hobbyist it is never a weakness to ask for advice as you can guarantee there will be someone out there with more knowledge than you.

You got burned and never took the advice offered so this thread went nuclear.

I personally have a plan when buying and that includes bullion, semi-numismatics and proofs. I keep certain proofs as i like them and flip others to allow a purchase of more bullion which adds to my portfolio without risk so if i can flip a proof that i bought for a couple of hundred and make a decent profit then go straight out and buy 25oz's of bullion in a pure intrinsic value point of view i've made a decent choice. However the proof may rise in value and higher than the bullion i bought but am i bothered? no because i have swapped 2oz's for 25oz's with little to no risk

I dont know anyones path on here and we all have an opinion on what's right but my view is to anyone, you do what you deem right and don't condemn others because they like silver over gold or vice versa and don't criticize flippers as that is there plan and they enjoy the game. 

If i am after a proof from the RM and find myself in a huge 2350 next in line queue I wont worry about it. i move on and shrug my shoulders as its not worth getting my knickers in a twist over a piece of gold/silver.

What will be will be, but also if i may add, if i do find a coin i want and i miss out be god i will 100% research all options before i buy as you can guarantee you could find it cheaper elsewhere, this place is fantastic for deals but if you alienate the members no-one will sell to you.

Lastly, i still believe you are a reporter as that link you posted had you named as additional reporting.

Love and piece, 

Gordy 

[BarryWoods]

2 hours ago, Jimmock said:

You will probably never know,it could be that the owner of Bullion House is a personal customer of R.M. got the coin then sold it to Bullion House,who have marked it up,as they are perfectly entitled to do so. 

One coin.? 

but this appears to be how the trade get all these coins.. - hundreds of these gold coins, thousands?of 1oz, 2oz 5oz gold coins a year -

RM 'sell' out on the website - possibly only 150 there for the public of a particular mintage- leaving say 200 are in the trade.  via MM scheme (which i had thought just wealthy collectors , as  think most people do)

and they go into retail at double, (or more) the mark up on the day of the launch of the product by RM - making it seem these are incredibly popular and a good investment, as prices are already up at dealers!!

Creating a false market.

Lawrence would appear to confirmed Chards (business has an account)- see his earlier post.

So what is the status of the coin when  a consumer buys it from Chards? or any other coin dealer that gets coins from RM in this manner.

Is it second hand? or is it 'brand new'   

 

Royal Mint needs to sort out and clarify what the RM to trade supply train is really like.

[BarryWoods]

3 minutes ago, Gordy said:

OK, well can I offer some advice then?

The investing/collecting of PM's needs knowledge when buying anything as the markets change quickly researching the various avenues is very helpful when entering into this murky world of PM's

Any new member on here who is new to this gets as much help as needed when they ask and some just scour the threads to learn

There are small buyers on here who can only afford little purchases when they have the funds to very large big buyers who have a wealth of knowledge.

When looking for what you want you should try different dealers and sellers and even look abroad. There are avenues for buying not just in Europe but as far away as Hong Kong and the USA/Canada and these can be worth looking at as sometimes you can buy what you want from these companies cheaper than in the UK and that's including shipping costs and VAT costs. I have bought from far and wide both bullion and semi-numismatics without difficulty.

It just takes time and effort and investing your time wisely.

We all make mistakes when buying the shiny stuff and an intelligent buyer will learn from it and move on and make the next purchase more informed and with less risk to getting fingers burned.

Whether you are an invester in big bucks or a hobbyist it is never a weakness to ask for advice as you can guarantee there will be someone out there with more knowledge than you.

You got burned and never took the advice offered so this thread went nuclear.

I personally have a plan when buying and that includes bullion, semi-numismatics and proofs. I keep certain proofs as i like them and flip others to allow a purchase of more bullion which adds to my portfolio without risk so if i can flip a proof that i bought for a couple of hundred and make a decent profit then go straight out and buy 25oz's of bullion in a pure intrinsic value point of view i've made a decent choice. However the proof may rise in value and higher than the bullion i bought but am i bothered? no because i have swapped 2oz's for 25oz's with little to no risk

I dont know anyones path on here and we all have an opinion on what's right but my view is to anyone, you do what you deem right and don't condemn others because they like silver over gold or vice versa and don't criticize flippers as that is there plan and they enjoy the game. 

If i am after a proof from the RM and find myself in a huge 2350 next in line queue I wont worry about it. i move on and shrug my shoulders as its not worth getting my knickers in a twist over a piece of gold/silver.

What will be will be, but also if i may add, if i do find a coin i want and i miss out be god i will 100% research all options before i buy as you can guarantee you could find it cheaper elsewhere, this place is fantastic for deals but if you alienate the members no-one will sell to you.

Lastly, i still believe you are a reporter as that link you posted had you named as additional reporting.

Love and piece, 

Gordy 

This is not about me - I'm sure I will get my money back, as these particular coins, will do well - once all the froth dies down.

RM and dealers seem to operating outside of the consumer interest - and the 'market price' of these would appear to many to be manipulated - 

This is RMs problem now, it makes them look bad!

[Gordy]

3 hours ago, BarryWoods said:

It was NOT available at the Royal Mint to the public - A VIP only offering, that got to a dealer - somehow.

well i can confimr it was not a VIP only offering, i have a bog standard account and i got mine because I got out of my bed early on a monday morning, made myself a cup of tea and sat at my bloody computer waiting for the site to open and i was successful so i was then offered the 2nd one as i'd bought the first one. and the lady at the RM was fantastic!! 

[BarryWoods]

6 minutes ago, Gordy said:

OK, well can I offer some advice then?

The investing/collecting of PM's needs knowledge when buying anything as the markets change quickly researching the various avenues is very helpful when entering into this murky world of PM's

Any new member on here who is new to this gets as much help as needed when they ask and some just scour the threads to learn

There are small buyers on here who can only afford little purchases when they have the funds to very large big buyers who have a wealth of knowledge.

When looking for what you want you should try different dealers and sellers and even look abroad. There are avenues for buying not just in Europe but as far away as Hong Kong and the USA/Canada and these can be worth looking at as sometimes you can buy what you want from these companies cheaper than in the UK and that's including shipping costs and VAT costs. I have bought from far and wide both bullion and semi-numismatics without difficulty.

It just takes time and effort and investing your time wisely.

We all make mistakes when buying the shiny stuff and an intelligent buyer will learn from it and move on and make the next purchase more informed and with less risk to getting fingers burned.

Whether you are an invester in big bucks or a hobbyist it is never a weakness to ask for advice as you can guarantee there will be someone out there with more knowledge than you.

You got burned and never took the advice offered so this thread went nuclear.

I personally have a plan when buying and that includes bullion, semi-numismatics and proofs. I keep certain proofs as i like them and flip others to allow a purchase of more bullion which adds to my portfolio without risk so if i can flip a proof that i bought for a couple of hundred and make a decent profit then go straight out and buy 25oz's of bullion in a pure intrinsic value point of view i've made a decent choice. However the proof may rise in value and higher than the bullion i bought but am i bothered? no because i have swapped 2oz's for 25oz's with little to no risk

I dont know anyones path on here and we all have an opinion on what's right but my view is to anyone, you do what you deem right and don't condemn others because they like silver over gold or vice versa and don't criticize flippers as that is there plan and they enjoy the game. 

If i am after a proof from the RM and find myself in a huge 2350 next in line queue I wont worry about it. i move on and shrug my shoulders as its not worth getting my knickers in a twist over a piece of gold/silver.

What will be will be, but also if i may add, if i do find a coin i want and i miss out be god i will 100% research all options before i buy as you can guarantee you could find it cheaper elsewhere, this place is fantastic for deals but if you alienate the members no-one will sell to you.

Lastly, i still believe you are a reporter as that link you posted had you named as additional reporting.

Love and piece, 

Gordy 

And as I said - I am not a reporter - my one an only ever credit anywhere - I got pissed of with The European Climate Foundation and sent a load of stuff, unsolicited, it to a journalist - David Rose - Tweeted it initially..

And when the story came out-with a lot of further research by ben PIle (who is a friend of mine) David gave me the credit, I guess for the tip. As basically I dumped a good story in his lap!!

I am NOT a reporter! I am a RM customer that is amazed how the RM operate. IF i was a reporter I  would have reported it!

Instead I went to RM as a customer of a couple of weeks ago , and said I think you have some serious issue to sort out..

but believe what you like..

 

Even if it was, does that negate any of these issues.!!

[Oldun]

13 minutes ago, BarryWoods said:

One coin.? 

but this appears to be how the trade get all these coins.. - hundreds of these gold coins, thousands?of 1oz, 2oz 5oz gold coins a year -

RM 'sell' out on the website - possibly only 150 there for the public of a particular mintage- leaving say 200 are in the trade.  via MM scheme (which i had thought just wealthy collectors , as  think most people do)

and they go into retail at double, (or more) the mark up on the day of the launch of the product by RM - making it seem these are incredibly popular and a good investment, as prices are already up at dealers!!

Creating a false market.

Lawrence would appear to confirmed Chards (business has an account)- see his earlier post.

So what is the status of the coin when  a consumer buys it from Chards? or any other coin dealer that gets coins from RM in this manner.

Is it second hand? or is it 'brand new'   

 

Royal Mint needs to sort out and clarify what the RM to trade supply train is really like.

Not trying to disparage you and you may well be right in the real world but this is speculation and a heartbeat from defamatory Without actual eveidence, it remains speculation.Try being a Police Officer, for example,  to understand what can and can’t be brought forward as evidence…triple that for a lawyer.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Oldun

[BarryWoods]

1 minute ago, Gordy said:

well i can confimr it was not a VIP only offering, i have a bog standard account and i got mine because I got out of my bed early on a monday morning, made myself a cup of tea and sat at my bloody computer waiting for the site to open and i was successful so i was then offered the 2nd one as i'd bought the first one. and the lady at the RM was fantastic!! 

the 2 oz gold plain edge, that I'm talking about?  or are you thinking about a different coin?

 

You would appear to be talking about the 2 oz gold milled edge coin., which was on the website.

 

None of the 5oz gold, 10 oz gold coins or above were available on the website.

These were straight at the dealers, despite RM saying we don't have any authorized dealers, It's 'complicated'