2022 Sovereign design revealed?

[Oldun]

After the King’s Coronation next year, there will be a dearth of reasons for special sovereigns (many recent ones coincided with the late Queen’s achievements in longevity of reign and marriage and her death along with the ascension of the new King), so enjoy it while it lasts……it’ll be back to regular sovs for a decade or two going forward after the coronation…..

 

The first proof sovereign of a new sovereign is always a winner……history proves this. If I were a youngun, I would be asking Santa for one for sure. If I were an Oldun, I would be getting one for its own worth as a collector and pass it down to a family member who appreciates value as opposed to numerical worth…..what is the phrase….someone who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing…….think of the value not the price.

 

Having bought both the 2017 5 coin set, 5 sov BU,  piedfort and SOTD,  thePlatinum wedding set and the Queen’s Platinum set as well as the 1817, 1937 and now 5 coin Charles III set, I am comfortable with my choices.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Oldun

[Oldun]

….and good old fashioned bog standard sovs of course…..that is taken as read  Ittakes a lot for me to drop into the proof world of sovs so they have to have “value” and is why I am not bothered about the “price”…..whereas bog standard sovs, apart from just being my favorite coin of all time, are just all about the price and actual tactile feel of them. Nothing beats that, not even a proof….and I have bought many motorbikes over the decades which provided me with enormous “value”……in trips, experiences, people met and miles travelled……even a wife and kid toboot…..

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Oldun

[Oldun]

The 2015 proof sovereign I also happen to rate for its uniqueness (only one other example of this happening in a sov in history) in both their portraits…..unbeloved and mostly unknown and uncared for…..makes bugger all moolah if sold but a great value. Two different portraits in the same year of the same sovereign.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Oldun

[refero]

in my opinion current availability on RM and main dealers' websites of most of Memorial releases is mainly due to the high prices asked (high mintages played a role, but a secondary one); 

this move had no influence on collectors (ok maybe a little bit of swearing, but they purchased nonetheless); first KC III proof is a must and it has to be in any modern sovs (or multiple of sovs) collection. I bet most (if not all) of those who purchased would have bought it even if RM would have asked 50-100 pounds more. (I would have..)

But those who were just aiming at a quick profit were just stopped. Being charged today of 700gbp (almost 800 euros) for an item that will be received in 2 months... and which is unlikely to get sold out soon (here it comes the second aspect of the story) it's just too much. There no room for a quick margin, hence the no purchase. Hence after a week there is still plenty of choice.

 

[BackyardBullion]

Apologies if this has been covered in this thread already but I haven't read every post!

I just spoke with my account manager at the Royal Mint who has confirmed that these coins will be sold up to 31st December 2022 and then any unsold items will be melted down (or just not minted if they hadn't been made) and the total mintages for each category will then subsequently be published in 2023. 

So this means the single sovereign could well have a mintage 3000 or so less than originally thought. 

[Oldun]

Do Managers speak for the actual decision makers at the RM ? Are they willing to actually stand by that statement as managers and put it in writing or is this a ploy that costs nothing to use you as a mouthpiece ?

 

If it is a locked in decision, surely, the RM would have no problem stating this on their website, formally ?

 

Ido ot wish to besmirch the RM managers as they have been brilliant with me but why not just put it in black and white somewhere ?

Edited November 21, 2022 by Oldun

[BackyardBullion]

1 minute ago, Oldun said:

Do Managers speak for the actual decision makers at the RM ? Are they willing to actually stand by that statement as managers and put it in writing or is this a ploy that costs nothing to use you as a mouthpiece ?

Um, I have no reason to doubt what I am told by my account manager and I kind of resent the statement that they are just using me as a mouthpiece....

[Oldun]

I edited the same time you posted. Why don’t they put it in black and white as opposed to just talking to a customer on the phone ? The RM should be formalising this decision if it is a real decision.

 

No offense intended btw  As I said, my account t managers have been fine with me over the years so please understand.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Oldun

[BackyardBullion]

6 minutes ago, Oldun said:

Do Managers speak for the actual decision makers at the RM ? Are they willing to actually stand by that statement as managers and put it in writing or is this a ploy that costs nothing to use you as a mouthpiece ?

 

If it is a locked in decision, surely, the RM would have no problem stating this on their website, formally ?

 

Ido ot wish to besmirch the RM managers as they have been brilliant with me but why not just put it in black and white somewhere ?

 

2 minutes ago, Oldun said:

I edited the same time you posted. Why don’t they put it in black and white as opposed to just talking ? Seems odd in this instance, no ?

Maybe just speak to your account manager and ask the same question. 

I suspect they haven't published anything because as with most of what they do they are useless with PR and communication.

Next time I won't bother sharing anything I get told I guess. 

[refero]

21 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

I just spoke with my account manager at the Royal Mint who has confirmed that these coins will be sold up to 31st December 2022 and then any unsold items will be melted down (or just not minted if they hadn't been made) and the total mintages for each category will then subsequently be published in 2023. 

So this means the single sovereign could well have a mintage 3000 or so less than originally thought. 

c'mon everything will magically go sold out way before 31-12-22.

I still have to see RM melting down easy money

[Oldun]

No need to be upset. I have been here along with you for many years here  on TSF. This time is the first time this particular time frame has been given for a sov, so it is worth discussion. If you have taken offense, my apologies. I could have phrased it better….

Edited November 21, 2022 by Oldun

[BackyardBullion]

1 minute ago, Oldun said:

No need to be upset. I have been here along with you for many years here  on TSF. This time is the first time this particular time frame has been given, so itis worth discussion. If you have taken offense, my apologies. I could have phrased it better….

It's OK. Just don't like being called a mouthpiece and all that potentially implies.

No hard feelings and only time will tell exactly what the RM actually does!

[Oldun]

6 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

It's OK. Just don't like being called a mouthpiece and all that potentially implies.

No hard feelings and only time will tell exactly what the RM actually does!

 We have been around the block for a long time….genuinely, phrased that improperly. Forgot how the internet works. See you guys again in another few years. Over and out.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Oldun

[Bixley]

56 minutes ago, Oldun said:

Do Managers speak for the actual decision makers at the RM ? Are they willing to actually stand by that statement as managers and put it in writing or is this a ploy that costs nothing to use you as a mouthpiece ?

 

If it is a locked in decision, surely, the RM would have no problem stating this on their website, formally ?

 

Ido ot wish to besmirch the RM managers as they have been brilliant with me but why not just put it in black and white somewhere ?

A verbal contract is not worth the paper it is written on.

[SilverDrum]

1 hour ago, BackyardBullion said:

Um, I have no reason to doubt what I am told by my account manager and I kind of resent the statement that they are just using me as a mouthpiece....

I think it was the post below by @sovereignsteve that may have given an alternate response. I don't think anyone doubt's you, just the clarity from the mint publicly isn't there. Not sure it has been verified tho, but it's contradicting. 

On 18/11/2022 at 22:41, sovereignsteve said:

I mentioned in another thread that they have someone who wants to purchase their remaining stock as and when they stop the public sale.

 

[AndrewSL76]

1 hour ago, BackyardBullion said:

Apologies if this has been covered in this thread already but I haven't read every post!

I just spoke with my account manager at the Royal Mint who has confirmed that these coins will be sold up to 31st December 2022 and then any unsold items will be melted down (or just not minted if they hadn't been made) and the total mintages for each category will then subsequently be published in 2023. 

So this means the single sovereign could well have a mintage 3000 or so less than originally thought. 

Thanks for sharing. This is something that the producers of the commemorative fractional sovereigns that are advertised on tv do. They set a maximum mintage and then melt anything that does not sell and then confirm the total final mintage. I think this also means that they don’t lose too much money in stock. 

It’s a good way for the Royal Mint to make sure that everyone who wants one, gets one, and it avoids a horrible expensive secondary market for the genuine collectors. I know that past releases have caused huge issues for them and the clear answer to this issue is to offer a high mintage with a cut off date. It is actually a brilliant idea. 

I am applauding the Royal Mint for doing this. 

[Petra]

1 hour ago, refero said:

c'mon everything will magically go sold out way before 31-12-22.

I still have to see RM melting down easy money

They may not need to melt anything down. With the long delivery times, who says that they have all been minted yet?🤔

[Paul]

@James32will be there  on new years eve, with his Dyson in one hand and a pint of Guinness & double nip of bushmills special reserve in the other

[Stuntman]

Many of the BU five sovereign pieces don't sell out their maximum mintage each year, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if the RM just finalise the mintages at the amount sold at the end of this year.

As an example, my 2018 BU five sovereign piece had (I think) a maximum mintage limit of 1000 when the coin was first made available in 2018, but the actual mintage was 459 according to the RM website.

In any event, the RM will have sold at least 80% of the maximum mintages of all these coins except the quarter sovereign, even if they stopped right now.  That's not bad at all, especially at these significantly higher prices.

Personally I am not convinced that the 2023 bullion sovereigns will feature this memorial reverse design.  I think that both the 2023-dated proof and bullion sovereign ranges will feature the standard G&D reverse.

[SheepStacker]

27 minutes ago, Stuntman said:

2023-dated proof and bullion sovereign ranges will feature the standard G&D reverse.

The proclamation in the Gazette has already stated the 2023 Sovereign will be "a depiction of Our Royal Arms".

 

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4170186

[westminstrel]

30 minutes ago, Stuntman said:

Personally I am not convinced that the 2023 bullion sovereigns will feature this memorial reverse design.  I think that both the 2023-dated proof and bullion sovereign ranges will feature the standard G&D reverse.

The RM website states that there will be bullion versions of the Memorial Sovereign (dated 2022 like the Proofs, I assume).

[Paul]

The trouble is they are never keen on giving out final mintages etc.

It's like pulling teeth.its normally only through a FOI freedom of information reqest, quoting data protection/SAR they release stuff that the likes of Aussie Perth mint release freely as a matter of course as time progresses 

Quoting max mintages etc always leaves the RM door open to conjure up a new set or the remarket old unsold product 

Honestly just finding mintages of their most  common 1oz silver Britannia coin, was like pulling teeth to obtain around five years back here on the forum, and still didn't get a definitive answer, and it is not published on their site 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Paul

[westminstrel]

1 minute ago, SheepStacker said:

The proclamation in the Gazette has already stated the 2023 Sovereign will be "a depiction of Our Royal Arms".

 

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4170186

Actually that proclamation does not state the year at all.

Indeed it could be used for 2022, 2023, or any future year when the RM wants to use the Coat of Arms design on a Sovereign with KC III on the obverse.

At some point, the RM will anyway have to either issue a new Proclamation for the G&D design on a KC III Sovereign, or they can issue a new Proclamation to “alter” the existing Proclamation for the G&D design on a QE II Sovereign.

[SheepStacker]

33 minutes ago, westminstrel said:

Actually that proclamation does not state the year at all

That's true actually, don't know why I thought I saw 2023 on there. Maybe I was thinking of a different proclamation!

[Britannia47]

"I Like your Lion and Unicorn, but not three times in a row!  Can we have our Dragon back Mister?"