withdrawn Trade an NGC PF70 UC 2012 Sovereign for a NGC PF70 UC 2005 Double / £2 Sovereign - anyone?

[SilverMike]

Will sort photos out and put in the post later, just thought I'd get it listed and see if anyone is interested? I'll cover post both ways.

edit, photos added:

 

[sovereignsteve]

Just to clarify. That's a 2012 1S for a 2005 2S?

[SilverMike]

23 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

Just to clarify. That's a 2012 1S for a 2005 2S?

Indeed, sorry if the title or post is unclear.

[sovereignsteve]

5 minutes ago, SilverMike said:

Indeed, sorry if the title or post is unclear.

No, it's clear, just wanted there to be no doubt😊

[SilverMike]

6 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

No, it's clear, just wanted there to be no doubt😊

Well any doubt is certainly and unequivocally, now put at ease, or I do hope so 😉

[SilverMike]

Incase anyone were to believe this offer is possibly imbalanced and improper (and my thanks go to @sovereignsteve for his post which has perhaps made some question it), firstly I struggled to find a v.recent open sale for either coin on a 70, but from what I could find they appear to be roughly the same, or certainly close enough to have negotiated, hence my offer. 

However, i’ve now looked at the market for raw coins (and I only choose different dealers as neither sells both coins at the moment):

 

2012 Proof 1 Sov / Chards / £1,115

https://www.chards.co.uk/2012-gold-sovereign-elizabeth-ii-proof/1045

 

2005 Proof 2 Sov / BBP / £1,252 

https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/2-pound-gold-coin/specific-year-2-pound-gold-coins/2005-2-proof-gold-coin-double-sovereign-no-box-or-cert/

No doubt there are others with different offers, but these two are well known by most give or take aligned in most cases

So there is £140 difference and both move with spot price to some degree, in light of this insurmountable difference and to be clear, id be more than willing to bridge the gap with £140 your way, for a 70 trade.

my thanks, Mike

[sovereignsteve]

3 hours ago, SilverMike said:

Incase anyone were to believe this offer is possibly imbalanced and improper (and my thanks go to @sovereignsteve for his post which has perhaps made some question it),

I did indeed ask for clarification from you for that very reason.

I did realise the two coins currently sell in the same price range and I think your Chards/BBP comparison of raw examples can be applied to PF70 graded coins as well.

The single 2012 sells for £1100 - 1150 but there have been very few double 2005 sold recently. There was a PCGS PR70 sold in auction 25 (27 Sept) at Thecoincabinet for £1250

The NGC census shows the 2005 having substantially fewer examples than the 2012 if anyone would want to take this into consideration.

I hope my intervention hasn't been unwelcome; I do have a 2S 2005 PF70 and I am considering your exchange.

 

[SilverMike]

1 hour ago, sovereignsteve said:

I did indeed ask for clarification from you for that very reason.

I did realise the two coins currently sell in the same price range and I think your Chards/BBP comparison of raw examples can be applied to PF70 graded coins as well.

The single 2012 sells for £1100 - 1150 but there have been very few double 2005 sold recently. There was a PCGS PR70 sold in auction 25 (27 Sept) at Thecoincabinet for £1250

The NGC census shows the 2005 having substantially fewer examples than the 2012 if anyone would want to take this into consideration.

I hope my intervention hasn't been unwelcome; I do have a 2S 2005 PF70 and I am considering your exchange.

 

Not unwelcome at all Steve and I perhaps came across brash, I admittedly got a little narked which is now regrettable. I know anyone who has these coins or is interested in them will likely know the price point, rarity and market demand or with a little bit of work can establish it, or should be able to on these sorts of sums of money.

We rest on our reputation on this forum though when buying and selling and I have never and would never knowingly try to rip anyone off or push an unfair advantage.

However, there are plenty of people who pass through these post having no idea of the value or real interest in the coins or deals on offer and I was concerned they could read from the messages that you had ‘weeded out a rip off’. Indeed I see we have attracted plenty of spectators already. You are a respected, longstanding member with an encyclopaedic knowledge on sovereigns and this industry and your posts carry weight and that matters. I felt that you been slightly unfair leaving open the implied direction of your questioning for the uninformed reader to perhaps ponder on my credibility.

There is a gap in the pricing as you also rightly state, but its within the realms of a negotiation for two people who wanted to deal.  But as you know it equally could be closed, flipped or be blown wide open by the next CC auction, so its only relative for a short period of time.

My reason for this trade is I have this coin spare now and I have all the 2 Sovereign special reverses, except the 2005 and it seemed a good idea to swap one for the other as they are give or take at the same level. Nothing more or less to it.

Had we done this in private I would have been far less sensitive and happily played the game (as we have done before), but there are potentially >12,000 people that could read these posts when public.

Id clearly be very interest in a trade, so do let me know once you've considered it.

Atb, mike

 

[sovereignsteve]

No, it is I who must apologise, I didn't realise you had become a little narked at my question. I admit it was a little brief and maybe I should have made the effort to explain a little. I thought I was merely requesting clarification and brevity would be business-like with no room for misunderstanding or judgement.

I tend to skim read sales post headings and the first time I saw this one, I read it as a 2012 double for a 2005 double. This got my attention and I then realised the reality on further reading.

I figured if I could be mistaken then possibly others could as well and this is the reason I asked for clarification. I meant no judgement on the relative merits of the coins concerned.