ASEs, or possibly not?

[Shamatti]

I have had a chance to go over my older stack recently, and test the stuff I bought way bck when, before I knew about magnet testing and fakes etc. I was also updating the catalogue.

 

I have come across to odd ASE coins.

 

3 odd things:
 

1. US coins usually 'flip' head to tails, these coins rotate head to tails like a European coin.
2. They are undated
3. They have serial numbers printed/stamped/engraved on them below the eagle.

They weigh one troy ounce, and they pass the magnet test. I have 2 coins and they have consecutive serial numbers.

 

In every other respect they look like an ASE.

 

Anyone have any idea what it is that I have here?

[Shamatti]

So I just dug out a real ASE 2014 which I got from STG last year.

 

These two coins are NOT ASE's!!

 

They have no denomination on them. And they have a proof like finish to them.

 

BUT!! They are the right weight and they pass the magnet test.

[lightjaw]

These do sound like fakes to me. If they are not ASE's. then why would someone copy them unless its to fake them?

[silverprepper999]

magnet test proves nothing much. try acid test.

[SilverPirate]

Sounds like a job for acid.

[silversword]

I'll bet a silver dollar that if they pass the weight test, then the dimensions are probably wrong. There is a likelihood they are brass with silver plating, which has enough of a pull to be similar to a genuine silver coin when testing with a rare earth magnet.

 

Seems one of the way the scammers can avoid the "forgery" tag is to not include a date and/or denomination, and can thus easily market the items as replicas 

[Hookythestacker]

Sham, out of interest is it reeded? The wrong orientation is one thing, but no date?? That is shoddy, a quick search did not reveal much apart from

 

http://www.apmex.com/product/73736/1-oz-silver-american-eagle-planchet-no-date

 

Which is not much help, Ali Express turned up blank too, love a good coin mystery so I'll keep looking, can you give us the serial numbers or even a picture if you have time?

[Shamatti]

 I was going to retest but I have lost my magnet.

 

Will post pictures tomorrow when I get some day light. Very odd. Deffo fakes, but I can fond no other like them, pictured or discussed on the net.

 

ETA - Yes they are reeded. I took them out of the capsules for a play - they don't even feel like silver. Not that I have taken many coins out to play with them TBH...

[Hookythestacker]

There are a few genuine silver rounds with the ASE design, this may or may not be one of them,

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/301584735092?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&chn=ps&device=c&rlsatarget=&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108

 

Not an ounce and no serial number, but there could be variations about, pity if they are not silver though 

[Danny-boy]

Ping test?

It's fairly conclusive.

[Shamatti]

Thanks guys.

 

I just looked up the purchase. I got these back in 2012. They were the 3rd or 4th coin purchase I ever made. They were on ebay listed as "1oz Fine Silver .999 USA Silver Liberty Round , Very cool and Collectable"

 

Ping test fail.

 

According to this video https://youtu.be/enBD3GsIaJU?t=106

 

Should start automatically at the 1.40 mark approx.

It is funny how stuff goes into your stack never to be seen again for year after year. Makes you think.

[Danny-boy]

I'm over 400oz now, and I wonder if there is one coin that's fake in my stack from the early days.

Or maybe I got lucky, I have always tested using a few tests but you just never know.

[HawkHybrid]

they could still be genuine, but just not ase.

why would someone fake an ase and then add

a changing serial nos. so that people can

identify them easily as not real ase's?

 

I think the ping test not quite as good as the others,

(especially as my hearing is probably not as

good as it used to be  )

 

I vote sg test, but it could ruin the proof like finish

though.

 

HH

[MickB]

So the rotation of an ASE is exact for all ASE's when rotated regardless of year?

Reason why I ask is I think my Ruthenium plated is off slightly when I checked it. It got me thinking at the time but all the usual tests it passed.

[HawkHybrid]

many us minted coins including the ase are coin orientated.

(this may be true for all but I'm not sure)

as opposed to the medal orientated coins that's in common

circulation in the uk. medal orientated ase's are either

fake or error strikes. the difference in orientation is 180 degrees.

 

HH

[Shamatti]

Finally got round to doing some pics of these rounds!!

 

They are the correct weight, they pass the magnet test no problems. The ping test sounds nothing like an ASE. Butthen we have decided these are not ASE coins. But are they silver rounds?

 

They have a sequential serial number printed/stamped on them, which makes me think they may be silver rounds.

 

What do you think?

 

    

 

 

    

 

 

 

[Cornishfarmer]

Not sure what they are, but they are cracking pictures. The detail is very good

[Hookythestacker]

Thanks for posting the pics Sham, they look a little better than I thought they would from your initial description, as I'm sure you already know but for the benefit of any new starters if they are slightly thicker than an ASE then ping test would not work anyway, I'm sure we have all tried this with a couple of maples or phillys before. Hopefully somebody will recognise them from the pictures.

[Shamatti]

Not sure what they are, but they are cracking pictures. The detail is very good

 

Thanks. It's my Olympus tough camera, it's astonishingly good. I have snorkelled on the barrier reef with it, trudged through deserts, dropped and abused it and it just keeps going! Has a 1cm macro mode, so I use it for that too. Not expensive either. I have half a dozen other camers, all Sony or Minolta, but this little beautry his probably switched me to Olympus for good now! (That's after 25 years of being a devout Minolta buyer - then Sony when they purchased them of course)

Plus Olympus customer service is the best I have come across for years. I emailed them complaining that the lens adapter rings had dropped off whilst snorkelling, they sent me a replacement free!!

 

Thanks for posting the pics Sham, they look a little better than I thought they would from your initial description, as I'm sure you already know but for the benefit of any new starters if they are slightly thicker than an ASE then ping test would not work anyway, I'm sure we have all tried this with a couple of maples or phillys before. Hopefully somebody will recognise them from the pictures.

 

Thanks Hooky. I am confused by these. Why go to the trouble of stamping them with a sequential serial number? I know that they are as I have two (14644 and 14645) They are not bad looking.

 

According to my measurements they are:

 

Diameter                          39.02 mm

Thickness @ Centre        2.58 mm

Thickness @ Rim             +/- 3 mm*

 

*I think we found the smoking gun!?

 

Both rounds are consistent in their dimensions. Both have the same flaw too..... the thickness of the rim at the top of the coins is 3.05 mm. At the bottom of the coins it is 2.88 mm At the 3 O'clock and 6 O'clock positions they are 3.03mm

 

I am just wondering which other silver coins I have which I don't mind taking out of their capsule to have a play with, compare the feel of the metal.

 

This one has me beaten. lol

[Hookythestacker]

I've had a look around online Sham and there are more Liberty rounds than you can shake the proverbial at but I can't find ONE with a serial number on it. My favourite mint for rounds (Highland, don't know why I just like their odds and ends) has done a few but have the HM stamp and no serial number. Must be a few more kicking about if that serial number relates to the position in the run, of course it may not. Hopefully a friendly American will read the thread and give the answer.

[MickB]

I've been searching this for the past hour even on alibaba but nothing yet has come up.

[HawkHybrid]

the volume of the round is roughly

pi x 1.951cm x 1.951cm

then multiplied by 0.258cm

 

which is ~3.085 cubic cm

 

for pure silver it's 2.96 cubic cm

 

this does not take into account of the uneven surface.

 

it's only 4% less dense, for copper it should be closer

to 16+%. it's close enough to try an sg test as it could

still be silver.

 

HH

[mikehosilver]

Hi all. I'm friendly, and an American, but unfortunately new to stacking silver. But from looking at ASEs that I have, I would have to say that's definitely not an ASE. The first 3 sun rays on the left side should all touch the edge of the coin, and the 3rd ray should pass through the L slightly more towards the top of the letter. Also, at the part of the flag that contains the stars, the area in between the stars should not be smooth. There should be very fine texturing in a weave pattern there. "In God We Trust" should be finer letters also. When you flip the coin over, when Lady Liberty is upside down, the eagle should be right side up and vice versa. On the reverse, there should be small initials near the claw holding the arrows. Near the center top of the shield, where it is pointed, should be one feather slightly overlapping the shield. Of course, across the bottom it should read "1 OZ. FINE SILVER ~ ONE DOLLAR".  One complaint I've heard repeatedly of ASEs is that they're somewhat boring, with the only thing changing from year to year is the date. What you probably have is a privately minted round. I'll see if I can find anything like that from the private mints.

[mikehosilver]

I believe I located the origin of what you have. Check this out:  http://www.coin-rare.com/silver-rounds-american-silver-eagle-design-1.aspx  If you notice in their title "(New Design)", I believe you have their Old Design, although I can't confirm that. If you look at their obverse side, their Lady Liberty looks identical to your's. But their reverse is different on their New Design. The official Govt Mint probably made them change it.

[Hookythestacker]

That's a good site Mike, well worth a look for anyone with an interest in private mints, and I see they do custom work as well which could explain the number on Shams. None of their stock dies seem to fit the bill though,

 

http://www.coin-rare.com/stock-die-sample-1.aspx

 

Look forward to you sickening all us Brits with stories about how cheap your silver is