eBayers selling fake silver coins

[Pete]

Dear forum,

 

I am getting very frustrated by the increased number of sellers on eBay selling replicas.

Most are stating somewhere in their description that these coins are plated so technically not a problem to the buyers knowing this BUT .. look at the pictures !

These coins are perfect looking replicas and state one ounce fine silver or .999 silver etc and no-where is there a mark to state they are not the genuine article.

Has anyone bought one of these coins and compared to the genuine coin ?

 

My suggestion is to start compiling a list of these sellers of counterfeit coins and bars and when we deem appropriate we can bring this to the attention of the appropriate authorities. I am quite prepared to telephone eBay and make a formal complaint as they don't seem to bother when such items are reported as replicas.

 

Just looking today at Australian silver coins for sale in the next 24 hours -

 

barleyexpress813

shuhal786

 

These coins will be flipped at some point I guess so killing the game for the stacking community in time.

Who will trust an eBayer in the future if the world is saturated in fakes ?

[Danny-boy]

Agree with you entirely Pete.

Anybody who wishes to name and shame can post it here.

Like you say, selling with the correct description is one thing, but they will get flipped.

I'm fairly, but not 100% confident I would spot it.

[Shamatti]

I think one thing we can all do is not support these sellers.

 

There is talk on some forums about how people store their silver - home safes etc. Stackers are actually purchasing these fake coins so that they can populate a 'decoy safe' which is installed in an easily findable place to stop burglars from finding their well hidden and well stocked safe. So I can see the logic in this, but I just could not bring myself to support these people who are so obviously trying to make a fast buck at the expense of those who do not know better, and whoa re thinking they are getting a good deal.

 

Or perhaps we are over thinking all this. Perhaps there are people out there who can't afford silver coins and who misguidedly think that it is cool and exciting to have one that is silver plated. They don't realise that it is essentially worthless? They think - well, it is SILVER PLATED!!! So it must be valuable! Remember, not everyone is as well informed as those of us on this forum.

[Danny-boy]

I have said it before and I'll say it again.

Whilst I sympathise with those who unknowingly buy these fakes, people should do their own diligence before they embark on buying precious metals.

There is PLENTY of advice out there, enough to stop people buying fakes.

If I have not bought from somebody before, I ensure I pay by regular PayPal so I am protected if the item is fake.

If I decide to buy a new car, I check everything out before I commit.

Let's be honest, the majority of fakes are easily identifiable if you know what you are looking for. If you don't, it's obvious you shouldn't be buying from eBay.

In a perfect world, people would buy from trusted non-eBay sellers first until they knew what they were doing.

I have been stung on eBay with fakes twice, but I blame nobody but myself. I didn't do my own due diligence, and one was a gamble.

Be careful out there, it's a minefield.

[Pete]

Once upon time whilst in the USA I was in deep trouble because I handed over a note that was found to be counterfeit.

This note was originally given to me by the foreign currency desk, in the UK, of one of our largest banks.

Luckily I had a thriving business with this bank and they supported me but otherwise I could have gone to jail had I not been a very important client of the bank.

Now I look at these silver plated forgeries and wonder how they can get away with it.

These coins do not state anywhere that they are copies.

If you handed over a few fake pound coins to a shopkeeper that knew they were fakes ( lot of them about ) and the police were called you would be arrested.

What's the difference handling these fake silver coins ?

 

It is not a matter of buyer beware - this invasion of fakes needs to be halted.

[SilverPirate]

Is it really worth having fake bullion? Once they realize they will be back for the real stuff.My mum used to have a shop and it got broken into a few times so she left a tenner in change in an open till they took that only and left no damage apart from entry.Maybe all the stuff you have grown out of love with and a few 1oz bars and a bit of sterling the odd gold earing and there happy,they got there drug money and out.The real stack stays protected, better still split the stack up into quarters and stack around the house ,i have hidden mine under my teenager he never moves for nothing safe place i bet., 

[ChrisSilver]

People selling Perth Mint replicas are Infact breaking federal laws in Australia. It's selling counterfeit currency. I am sure the same law applies here, just that no one has pressured eBay into being strict with these sellers.

Someone needs to write to Perth Mint (and all the other mints affected) and get them to write a letter to eBay. Otherwise eBay won't do anything serious about it.

[klacey]

Maybe you should do a safe sellers list too. I sell on ebay, so you know its genuine silver.

 

For those interested, I do alot of auctions.

 

Ebay user: klacey180578

[Pirocco]

I have said it before and I'll say it again.

Whilst I sympathise with those who unknowingly buy these fakes, people should do their own diligence before they embark on buying precious metals.

There is PLENTY of advice out there, enough to stop people buying fakes.

If I have not bought from somebody before, I ensure I pay by regular PayPal so I am protected if the item is fake.

If I decide to buy a new car, I check everything out before I commit.

Let's be honest, the majority of fakes are easily identifiable if you know what you are looking for. If you don't, it's obvious you shouldn't be buying from eBay.

In a perfect world, people would buy from trusted non-eBay sellers first until they knew what they were doing.

I have been stung on eBay with fakes twice, but I blame nobody but myself. I didn't do my own due diligence, and one was a gamble.

Be careful out there, it's a minefield.

On the other hand, if you look at the number scams going 'round (both in coins and stories), do your own due diligence is not an easy / short task, so keep bringing up the fake elements and blame the persons, is a way that gives more results than just blaming yourself. Prevention is better than correction.

[Pipers]

I have reported 1 seller about 3 months ago.  Ebay did not seem to interested though they did remove the coin.  I was thinking whether to report it to the appropriate Mint next time, as they would have the most to lose in the long run. The Mints do not want any loss of confidence in there coins.  Maybe if the Forum got together and wrote a letter it would have more weight, though i wouldn't hold my breath. 

[SilverPirate]

With all these fakes about credit to the Canadian Mint for trying a new version of the Maple to combat it and the sunshine  1oz bars with there new security feature.

The fakes will never be stopped it's up to the mints to come up with ever increasing silver and gold that gets harder to copy.

[Danny-boy]

Maybe somebody should start an e-petition and spread it round the PM forums.

[Pete]

Maybe somebody should start an e-petition and spread it round the PM forums.

Absolutely but how do you start ?

[ChrisSilver]

Absolutely but how do you start ?

 

Maybe someone could use something like this.. http://www.ipetitions.com/ ?

 

I haven't used that site before, but they came up pretty high in a google search I just did.

[Danny-boy]

http://epetitions.net

[ChrisSilver]

http://epetitions.net

 

Layout looks a little dated compared to http://www.ipetitions.com/

 

Pete, if you create a petition, I will happily sign it, unfortunately I don't have enough spare time to promote a petition and to then send it to all of the mints, as well as running the forum. But I am 100% behind you.

[Danny-boy]

It was merely an example, there are loads out there.

I think eBay needs to be petitioned to stop allowing people to sell illegal coins, rather than petition the mints.

[ChrisSilver]

It was merely an example, there are loads out there.

I think eBay needs to be petitioned to stop allowing people to sell illegal coins, rather than petition the mints.

 

I think it is best to contact both. After we have x amount of signatures, contact all the relevant mints to let them know how many people dislike what is going on, and also contact eBay. 

Also need to get the mints to write to alibaba.com and aliexpress.com, that is where all the stuff originally comes from before it gets onto eBay.

Hopefully something can be done about it.

[Danny-boy]

You need to set the petition up to petition one company to do one thing.

That needs to be eBay, to ban counterfeit legal tender currency as it is against the law.

The petition can then be sent to all of the mints that are affected, and ask them to sign it and possibly go further by writing letters etc.

A petition is not just a place for people to say they don't like something, it is aimed at a specific person / company to request they stop or start doing something.

[ChrisSilver]

You need to set the petition up to petition one company to do one thing.

That needs to be eBay, to ban counterfeit legal tender currency as it is against the law.

The petition can then be sent to all of the mints that are affected, and ask them to sign it and possibly go further by writing letters etc.

A petition is not just a place for people to say they don't like something, it is aimed at a specific person / company to request they stop or start doing something.

Oh right, didn't know it worked like that.

Another reason why I shouldn't be the chief guy in this.

I think Pete would be a great guy to run this

[Danny-boy]

I think Pete would be a great guy to run this

I concur.

If it's going to be done, it has to be done properly in my opinion. This is a chance to actually change eBay policy. They may ignore it, they may not.

I remember the same happened for e-cigarettes and it caused eBay to overturn a full ban on anything related to it.

It needs to be specifically for fake legal tender coins, so silvertowne bars etc would not be included. Take it one step at a time, and once they are listening it can be taken further if possible.

It needs to be posted on Every silver / gold forum in the world as far as possible, nobody will bat an eyelid until it has four figure backing.

The petition needs to run for a few months before it is sent to eBay, preferably with a full list of national laws that are being broken when these counterfeit currency is manufactured and sold.

Only my opinion of course.

[Ryan AC]

I don't think anyone here would be able to tell the difference between a real one and a fake on a lot of these unless you had a real one to compare or unsealed it and done an acid test, although the sliding magnet test works perfectly, a lot of people aren't going to be able to tell though.

I think it'd only be legal tender that is illegal to copy, I don't think there's anything illegal about copying bullion.

Also places like alibaba and the Chinese places making these copies will never be stopped no matter how much you try, china has no copyright laws, they even make copied cars etc.

eBay probably has it's own terms and conditions regarding replicas and as long as they're not broken then they're not going to stop anyone selling them because they're not going to lose out on money no matter how small an amount, they don't have to and they're not going to waste there time trying.

Sorry about the negative input but personally I think it'd be a losing battle unless copied legal tender is being sold as 100% real.

[Danny-boy]

Ryan, I disagree on some of your points to be honest.

I think the majority of people on here would spot a fake using their preferred methods of testing, it's the general public that will struggle.

As you quite rightly say, legal tender is illegal to counterfeit. However, other bullion may well have design rights / copyrights / intellectual property that may be infringed, so could still end in a lawsuit for the counterfeiter.

I agree that Alibaba will never be stopped, by us anyway. But if we could get eBay to ban counterfeit coins, I'd say that would be a big blow to the market as it must be a main outlet stream for the 3rd party vendor.

eBay has lots of policies. If you report a Gucci handbag as being fake, they will remove it within 12 hours, I know this from experience. Like I said in another post, I have seen a "crowd" change eBay policies based on volume of said "crowd".

It makes no difference if a counterfeit is sold as such or as real, either way it is a crime. It's a crime to make it, but not to sell it - but eBay could and should block illegal items.

I agree that eBay are money hungry ballbags, but they have banned items before, regardless of their loss of income.

You try selling anything with a swastika on it, it will be removed immediately (apart from coins, stamps and a few other items) - I know that for a fact too.

There are lots of items that are perfectly legal that can't be sold on eBay, so I see no reason why they shouldn't block illegal counterfeit coins or non-silver items stamped as 999 etc (unless marked as a copy, I have no problem with this if it's not legal tender).

I'm not criticising what you said Ryan, just contributing to a very interesting thread.

D

[Pete]

Here is a classic replica / fake that the seller describes as plated but look at his heading and look at the pictures of this coin.

Does anyone have an email address for the American Authorities that I could send this picture to ?

 

I have written to Interpol and sent them this example.

They have a department that deals with financial crime, counterfeit currency and forged documents etc.

[Pete]

Adding another sheister to the list but this new one is at least stating plated silver in the title.

Doesn't matter because the coins are stamped fine silver .999 one ounce.

He cleverly states that the plating is .999 silver - thick enough to coat a football field from an ounce possibly.

Item # 221410194851 for 6 counterfeit Eagles

 

New sheister for the list -

stevelyn65

 

barleyexpress813

shuhal786