1971 Gold Standard and Society

[sixgun]

8 minutes ago, kimchi said:

Then you need to look harder for 'the truth'.

Well i won't find it looking at the edge of a coin will i.

[kimchi]

9 minutes ago, sixgun said:

Well i won't find it looking at the edge of a coin will i.

If you take things so literally then perhaps not (?) - no idea, but I always have hope and look forward to your insight if you do, or find another way around the maze

 

[HawkHybrid]

1 hour ago, sixgun said:

It is a limitless credit card in the hands of criminals - it means there can be endless wars - endless backhanders - endless feasts at the trough. $trillions upon $trillions are looted. This can only go on when there is a limitless credit card. 

 

currency(credit card) versus gold standard(debit card).

each has their uses.

 

to the op's point. the gold standard is like a book of law.

on it's own the law book is useless. you need people to

uphold the law. it is the people not the law book that is

important. a criminal will always do dodgy things.

someone with integrity will always consider the integrity

of their actions even in a lawless society.

imo society dictates the integrity of our collective actions.

monetary policy is just the means by which we act. if

your intention is to steal, does it matter if it's a gold coin

or fiat notes?

 

(when talking about the evil that was done in the name of

fiat currency, don't forget to mention all the evil that was

done in the name of gold. when doing evil, the means by

which you are paid is not important. historical atrocities

are honestly paid(gold) to perform evil deeds?)

 

HH 

[Martlet]

Fractional reserve, inflation, debt, every problem with currency occurred before 1971 too.  As others have put, currency is for transactions, there is less need for a hard standard as economies grow, even restricts growth.  What we do with currency depends on the politicians, they can be care free or conservative in spending, dont blame the tools. 

[KDave]

41 minutes ago, Martlet said:

Fractional reserve, inflation, debt, every problem with currency occurred before 1971 too.  As others have put, currency is for transactions, there is less need for a hard standard as economies grow, even restricts growth.  What we do with currency depends on the politicians, they can be care free or conservative in spending, dont blame the tools. 

It is very tempting to agree as it is an easy logical conclusion, but this doesn't match the information being presented. Something major happened when we lost the gold standard. Forget cause and effect for a moment. 

1. Workers wages stagnated vs productivity - 

And this;

 

2. Something changed socially following suspension of the gold standard. Is it as a result of, or not (coincidence)?

Divorce rate, 1971 it begins to rise in all age groups;

Incarceration rate, indicative of crime rates (?), began to rise following suspension of the gold standard;

 

What else changed in 1971? Western politicians begin driving economically/socially destructive policies? 

Having had the day to think about this, I think one of the aspects is a combination of income tax, savings tax (inflation) and deficit spending. The source of the problem is FIAT, or easy money, allowing politicians to promise spending to gain votes. I know from other work that there is a definite link between the welfare state and divorce rates. 

Has inflation (savings tax) and the ability of the government to ramp up income taxes, in fact most taxes, allowed them to skim all of the productivity gains that would otherwise have made their way into our pocket and quality of life? Has fiat allowed us to be robbed more easily. 

Contrary to the logical conclusion, it is not business as usual compared to the rest of history, politically, socially, economically. I would like to get to the bottom of it, it will probably take many hours to work this out. 

[richatthecroft]

8 hours ago, KDave said:

The thing that is interesting, (the point I was interested in), is the apparent link between coming off of the gold standard and social and economic decline of the majority of people. Is it monetarily related, some characteristic of fiat or gold that is overlooked? Or is it indicative of social decline? Or coincidence? Any thoughts on this aspect of it? 

I think the question you ask is extremely complicated.  There won't be a definitive answer- but there will be a myriad of explanations all tangled together.

 

[Martlet]

38 minutes ago, KDave said:

1. Workers wages stagnated vs productivity - 

Leaving the gold standard may have allowed this divergence rather than caused it - there is no inherent reason for leaving the gold standard to change production.  Looking for reasons, i'd suggest computerisation and automation - the comment about the 4004 is likely on the money.  

(also the compensation looks adjusted for inflation, making the divergence seem larger)

[HawkHybrid]

43 minutes ago, KDave said:

1. Workers wages stagnated vs productivity - 

 

a possible reasoning for this is that the access

to capital following fiat currency allowed for big

growth in businesses.

eg machinery allowed workers to be more productive.

a lot of the extra revenue from production was used

to pay back the cost of the machine(capital and

interest), the gain in actual profits is no where as big

as the production figure suggests. companies

continue to equip their workers with better machinery

in an ever ongoing battle to stay competitive and

survive.

 

notice how the productivity line starts to rise faster than

the wages line ~1960. whatever that was causing it

had an effect well before 1971.

 

HH

[RacerCool]

On 13/11/2019 at 01:59, KDave said:

An interesting infographic for those with a propensity for charts, aptly named 'WTF happened in 1971';

https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

 

On 13/11/2019 at 02:31, Roy said:

1971 was a changing point in History, and not for the common good.

 

On 13/11/2019 at 03:28, 5huggy said:

1971 was in my opinion - the loss of understanding of "SOUND MONEY" 

Let's not ignore the fact that I was born in 1971.