Does the trade war between the USA and China make the silver price rise?

[TheSilverSurfer]

Hello all,

I have a question and having a really hard time getting the answer to it.

Because of the ongoing trade war between the USA and china gold prices have risen again.
Everytime investers get in a scary situation they go to the safe haven called gold.

But do these investers also buy silver as a safe haven? If not why not? I mean both gold and silver are ways to protect your cash.
So why would they only use gold as their safe haven?

Peace out,

TheSilverSurfer

[Norskgeld]

Both Gold and Silver are highly manipulated and their true value is suppressed.

For some strange reason it seems Silver has a heavier boot standing on it than Gold.

[Notafront4adragon]

Silver is an industrial metal.

[5huggy]

15 minutes ago, Notafront4adragon said:

Silver is an industrial metal.

A well as PM

[TheSilverSurfer]

@Notafront4adragon So silver is not a safe haven if i'm not mistaken?

[Notafront4adragon]

32 minutes ago, TheSilverSurfer said:

@Notafront4adragon So silver is not a safe haven if i'm not mistaken?

I'm absolutely no expert but I think the fact that it's both industrial and precious and that perception varries so much makes it less of a safe place to put your money.

 

[STONE]

Silver and gold ARE money. Always has been always will be. The Mass disinformation campaign in PMs has fooled many.... 

[shuggyboy24]

A minority of people now recognise that stocks are at the end of reasonable limits. Possibly a period of deflation then high inflation with PM's soaring perhaps. We could be witnessing the end of the greenback as the prime currency . 

[Tickety]

The pound dropping has also exacerbated the situation pushing gold and silver even higher.

The rise in PM prices are not as great in the dollar.

Andy

[TheSilverSurfer]

1 hour ago, shuggyboy24 said:

A minority of people now recognise that stocks are at the end of reasonable limits. Possibly a period of deflation then high inflation with PM's soaring perhaps. We could be witnessing the end of the greenback as the prime currency . 

No way that stocks are on their end. Since interest on saving is almost nothing, more people enter the stock market. More demand = higher prices. The stock market will go up and up as long as the interest on saving goes down or worse a negative interest  

[5huggy]

The raison d'être of this forum strongly suggests more than enough sentiment says Silver is percieved as a  "store of value" - (albeit a little more volatile than Gold)

just means you need to be nimbler if trading or PATIENT over the longer term

IMHO

[shuggyboy24]

1 hour ago, TheSilverSurfer said:

No way that stocks are on their end. Since interest on saving is almost nothing, more people enter the stock market. More demand = higher prices. The stock market will go up and up as long as the interest on saving goes down or worse a negative interest  

Some stocks will go up. I would surmise on miners etc as they have in general recently. Those in new tech. Those which will do well in a reflation in relation to public works to get the economies kick started. Banks etc will stay depressed as long as we are in a period of low interest rates. 

 

I think we will a further reduction in the general stock markets overall price before long. But hay ho if we had a crystal ball! 🤪

[shuggyboy24]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-06/investors-bet-on-boe-cutting-rates-below-zero-by-early-2021

 

A lot will depend on the way central banks proceed. However, history always illustrates that events can turn quickly. 

[Notafront4adragon]

8 hours ago, STONE said:

Silver and gold ARE money. Always has been always will be. The Mass disinformation campaign in PMs has fooled many.... 

Gold maybe but silver no, not anymore. Next time you're at a restaurant or in the grocery store attempt to give them an oz of silver and see if it's still money.

If there's a global recession, which plenty suspect, silver will go down in value as an industrial metal as demand slows. Remains to be seen if the perception of it being precious will counter that drop in value.

 

 

[vw1972]

They say that historically silver moves dobble of the gold price. We saw that even  more after the 2007 recession. But generally I think that the prof. funds and investors primarily put their money into gold when things are looking bad. But I personally bet on silver in the comming years.

[Samarium]

1 hour ago, Notafront4adragon said:

Gold maybe but silver no, not anymore. Next time you're at a restaurant or in the grocery store attempt to give them an oz of silver and see if it's still money.

 

 

 

Try and pay for anything with a £5 coin or a Scottish fiver. Gold or Silver wouldn't be taken. Try and pay for your petrol with a full sov. No chance.

[STONE]

3 hours ago, Notafront4adragon said:

Gold maybe but silver no, not anymore. Next time you're at a restaurant or in the grocery store attempt to give them an oz of silver and see if it's still money.

If there's a global recession, which plenty suspect, silver will go down in value as an industrial metal as demand slows. Remains to be seen if the perception of it being precious will counter that drop in value.

 

 

 

We are just in the last phase of currency devalution which is to remove the valuable backing of paper money, ie, gold and silver. When paper money finally bottoms out guess what will be used as a backing again? They cant print it as fast as it devalues. There are local people to me that barter goods for silver all the time... People are waking up and realizing that the dollars they are holding are just about worthless...

[AgCoyote]

9 minutes ago, STONE said:

We are just in the last phase of currency devalution which is to remove the valuable backing of paper money, ie, gold and silver. When paper money finally bottoms out guess what will be used as a backing again? They cant print it as fast as it devalues. There are local people to me that barter goods for silver all the time... People are waking up and realizing that the dollars they are holding are just about worthless...

People I talk to about gold and silver are as receptive as I've ever seen. They are starting to listen and quite a few have acted rapidly.

[Notafront4adragon]

2 hours ago, STONE said:

We are just in the last phase of currency devalution which is to remove the valuable backing of paper money, ie, gold and silver. When paper money finally bottoms out guess what will be used as a backing again? They cant print it as fast as it devalues. There are local people to me that barter goods for silver all the time... People are waking up and realizing that the dollars they are holding are just about worthless...

Local people who barter does not money make. When you can walk in McDonald's and buy something with silver (or gold) then sure. 

You say that's near. Hopefully as I've lots of silver I'd like to use, but I don't think it's gonna happen. We'll use Bitcoin before silver as money.

[RacerCool]

One of the reasons people choose gold over silver is that, if they're wanting to change dollars into PMs, it takes a whole lot less gold to store the same amount of dollars than silver.  It's economy of space, likely.

[Michal]

19 hours ago, Samarium said:

Try and pay for anything with a £5 coin or a Scottish fiver. Gold or Silver wouldn't be taken. Try and pay for your petrol with a full sov. No chance.

You put petrol for 1 pound in your tank ?🤭

[5huggy]

On 08/08/2019 at 13:08, Samarium said:

Try and pay for anything with a £5 coin or a Scottish fiver. Gold or Silver wouldn't be taken. Try and pay for your petrol with a full sov. No chance.

NOT just now but!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Notafront4adragon]

1 hour ago, SilverSid said:

Oh is that why silver has only gone up 12.44% in last month......

16.4% But that doesnt mean much (actually similar to platinum, again an industrial metal). Recession hasn't hit yet, remains to be seen if these recent gains stick. 

Silver is different to gold. Just look at the variations in price over last 10 years, it's an industrial metal. You and I think it's precious but we're in the minority.

1 hour ago, 5huggy said:

NOT just now but!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe. But here's my question what would an oz of silver be worth? Today you could sell an oz for about £20. Do you think an oz, if the economy has collapsed will it get you the same amount of food, fuel, or accommodation? Will people want silver or something else?

[Serendipity]

I agree with @RacerCoolthat it’s got to do with economy of space. I stack both gold and silver but prioritise buying gold over silver because it takes up much less space. I can literally fit my entire gold stack into a Japanese bento box. Silver and other commodities, such as copper, sugar, corn and livestock, are also negatively correlated with stocks and bonds and serve as safe havens for investors. However, you will need an incredible amount of silver or those other commodities to make any kind of real dent in the market compared to gold. The key advantage of silver is that it’s much cheaper than gold. Therefore, it’s more accessible to small investors.

 

[mdp2505]

Going back to @SilverSurfer's original question, is silver used as a safe haven?

It used to be money and it used to be treated as money far more than it is today. The word for silver and the word for money is the same in many languages. Unlike the word for gold.

Silver's industrial use accounted for 56% of annual demand according to latest figures if memory serves. A recession is always going to reduce the industrial demand for silver, so the price will go down. During the last financial crisis silver lost about 50% of its value before the massive run up through 2011. (Gold was approx -30%. How much of that was due to rebalancing sell-offs to buy more falling equities I do not know).

The question is, as silver's industrial demand decreases, does monetary/safe haven appeal increase? It seems so. Even if part of the upswing was due to a massive influx of traders into a relatively small market. Personally I would like to know how much of a correlation there is between reduced industrial demand and increased safe haven appeal. 

Long story short, despite this enjoyable rally we are experiencing, I imagine the next recession will cause silver's price to get hammered again. At first. Then as the world reels, we will see a real silver and gold bull run. 

I would be very happy to hear thoughts from other people on this topic and gain a better understanding of it.