Cashless Society

[Oldun]

Do I get bonus points and all your savings for bypassing the swear filter

[Xander]

7 minutes ago, AppleZippoandMetronome said:

I don’t mind being the forum idiot

If that's the case your village has reported you missing.😉

[silenceissilver]

1 hour ago, GoodAsGold said:

How do you acquire your cash @silenceissilver? Do you use a card to withdraw from a cash machine or bank? Or do you work and request your wages in cash to avoid using a card?  

I would like to get paid in cash, unfortunately, there are next to no jobs where you can insist on that. I go to the bank and withdraw all money for the month. But even using a card for withdrawing cash is still not paying with card.

[silenceissilver]

1 hour ago, Goldhooked said:

I am the king of lazy  

You are certainly not the king of freedom

[silenceissilver]

1 hour ago, AppleZippoandMetronome said:

I can now consider myself in good company as apparently we are idiots together

I have never been a fan of carrying around and using cash. As soon as I was able to get a deibit card, I got one. As soon as I was able to set my phone up for contactless payments I did so. I carry some cash with me just in case but I use it maybe once a month.

The above being said I do like that cash still exists and think it will be a very sad and worrying day when (I don't think its an if at this point) it ceases to be widely accepted. I admit that clashes with my own preference as outlined above. I suppose for me its a convenience thing. I enjoy the convenience of being cashless even though I see the problems that could come from a cashless society.

You know there are people at banks going through payments and looking for money laundering. Don't you feel creepy knowing you dont't know if it's you that might be assessed like this? Or do you just not think about this, like, if I don't look, it doesn't exist?

Or are you one of these, I have nothing to hide guys? To all those people I say, well, then upload a picture of yourself on the toilet (but please not here, lol)

[GoodAsGold]

1 hour ago, silenceissilver said:

You are taking away your own freedom which is your problem. Unfortunately, you are also taking away mine. Not you alone but you, together with all the other card payers. Let me elaborate, there are two issues here:

 

1) The meta data....Card payments, produce more such meta data.

2) ...if you are a dissident, your money card can just be turned off.

Card payments made by criminals using stolen cards in business premises enable the Police to visit the location used and obtain images of whoever used that card. They can also check other CCTV in the area near that particular time for further images. Vulnerable people who have been reported missing also sometimes use their cards, therefore leaving a movement pattern to assist the Police in hopefully eventually finding them safe. Law abiding citizens should have no qualms using their cards.

I would like to think that most members of this forum are not dissidents (although we probably all have our own idiosyncrasies) so no problems there either @silenceissilver

Personally I use both cards and cash. Cards for the convenience of larger purchases such as petrol and the weekly food shop. Cash for the smaller things in life, or for emergencies when bank systems go down and card payments cannot be made. It's also far easier keeping nice flat cards under the mattress than all those flipping coins. By the way, if you happen to be paranoid by any chance, then remember to keep your mobile phone switched off at all times, otherwise your movements can also be traced. Better still, sell it.  😊

[silenceissilver]

14 minutes ago, GoodAsGold said:

Card payments made by criminals using stolen cards in business premises enable the Police to visit the location used and obtain images of whoever used that card. They can also check other CCTV in the area near that particular time for further images. Vulnerable people who have been reported missing also sometimes use their cards, therefore leaving a movement pattern to assist the Police in hopefully eventually finding them safe. Law abiding citizens should have no qualms using their cards.

I would like to think that most members of this forum are not dissidents (although we probably all have our own idiosyncrasies) so no problems there either @silenceissilver

Personally I use both cards and cash. Cards for the convenience of larger purchases such as petrol and the weekly food shop. Cash for the smaller things in life, or for emergencies when bank systems go down and card payments cannot be made. It's also far easier keeping nice flat cards under the mattress than all those flipping coins. By the way, if you happen to be paranoid by any chance, then remember to keep your mobile phone switched off at all times, otherwise your movements can also be traced. Better still, sell it.  😊

We have a soft totalitarianism that is increasingly less soft. That means, the ideology - cultural Marxism - is as fanatic as National or international socialism, the means are much softer though. In such a society, everyone bar the ruling elites is a potential dissident, including you. After all you buy PMs, that's enough on its own for you to qualify. Or if you believe there are only two genders. Or if you believe there shouldn't be another 5 million migrants coming, let's say in the next 15 years. If you do, that makes you a "hate criminal" (also known as thought criminal).

"Law abiding citizens should have no qualms using their cards." This mindset deilvers yourself up to the whim of a bunch of bureaucrats.

[Goldhooked]

55 minutes ago, silenceissilver said:

You are certainly not the king of freedom

But I’m blissfully happy in all my ignorance  

[AppleZippoandMetronome]

13 minutes ago, silenceissilver said:

You know there are people at banks going through payments and looking for money laundering. Don't you feel creepy knowing you dont't know if it's you that might be assessed like this? Or do you just not think about this, like, if I don't look, it doesn't exist?

Or are you one of these, I have nothing to hide guys? To all those people I say, well, then upload a picture of yourself on the toilet (but please not here, lol)

I agree that the banks can and do scan accounts but I don't think it happens the way you have said here. I don't think anyone at the bank is scanning accounts. That process will have been automated long ago with algorithms set up to look for inconsistencies or odd behaviour and flag those accounts. That said I don't really care that my account will show I shopped at Tesco tonight or that I made a purchase from Amazon earlier this week. The reality of the society we live in especially in the UK and even more especially if you are in a city is that everything you do pretty much is traceable. I accept that I could make it harder to be tracked by using cash but I simply don't see the point. I don't see how I personally gain anything by throwing up that obstacle when anyone looking in to my life or investigating me could find out where I spend my money without much difficulty.

There are much bigger things that keep me up at night or cause me to worry than someone at the bank possibly seeing where I do most of my shopping or the ridiculous amount I spend on dog food.

[kimchi]

2 hours ago, Oldun said:

Do I get bonus points and all your savings for bypassing the swear filter

A good effort indeed but you'll have to go some way to beating Britney Spears having If You Seek Amy played at breakfast time on the BBC for a few days before they 'realised'. I almost crashed my car the first time I heard it!

'All of the boys and all of the girls are begging to if (F) you (U) seek (C,K) Amy (ME)'

Good lord!

[GoodAsGold]

@silenceissilver Why are you trying to preach to someone who uses bank cards for payments - people who you label as i***ts?  Sorry but I can't be clever enough to understand your rhetoric, although some of my own opinions on how the world is run may not be too far from some of your own but who knows? I prefer to keep my head under the parapet, not get shot down and definitely not insult a large percentage of forum members by classing us as i***ts. Trying to preach to i***ts make you one too my friend. Welcome to our club mate. Mind how you go.

[Mcgrimes]

9 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

how secure is that?

I think they say it's a 1 in  50,000 match? I'd say it's a good deterrent 

[Mcgrimes]

9 hours ago, Oldun said:

Found it

https://techraptor.net/content/politicians-fingerprint-copied-photos

Fingerprints are no more secure than cash on the person, if not worse as it induces complacency and can be copied from a glass you were drinking from in a pub or pretty much anywhere. Terrible security if used on its own, unless there is encyption of a fingerprint ? 

That's a bit of a bad article; that's like saying an iris scanner is not secure because you can simply remove one's eye. 

If I lost my phone, i do not expect a typical person or third would be able to get a copy of my finger print before I had the chance to block my phone or card.

If I dropped my wallet (with cash) and phone, do you think someone would be more inclined copy my finger print and use apple pay before they spent the money?

[Mcgrimes]

8 hours ago, Xander said:

Send me any old cash you don't want, oh, and leave your fingerprints on the notes. 😋

Good luck prying that from my wife's hands! You'll more likely find claw marks as I tried to get it back 😭

[KitboyE17]

9 hours ago, GoodAsGold said:

Do what all the other big boys do @KitboyE17 - just borrow a JCB in the middle of the night and raise it a little.

In all seriousness though - I guess the reason they have lowered all the ATM’s probably has something to do with accessibility. My mum uses a wheelchair so I get it. But at least in the older days there would be two machines - one low one high.

[KevinFlynn]

9 hours ago, silenceissilver said:

You know there are people at banks going through payments and looking for money laundering. Don't you feel creepy knowing you dont't know if it's you that might be assessed like this? ...

I'm feeling like this every time I am withdrawing the vast sums needed to fuel my gold and silver hobby. I know that if someone watches they will most certainly ask "hmm, what the hell did he do with that".

If I should be asked, I would say "drugs and whores" 😛

[Oldun]

3 hours ago, Mcgrimes said:

That's a bit of a bad article; that's like saying an iris scanner is not secure because you can simply remove one's eye. 

If I lost my phone, i do not expect a typical person or third would be able to get a copy of my finger print before I had the chance to block my phone or card.

If I dropped my wallet (with cash) and phone, do you think someone would be more inclined copy my finger print and use apple pay before they spent the money?

All good points but if I were actually targetting you, I would get your glass in a pub, restaurant, work or wherever, roll you over on the way home or later and voila....

[Oldun]

8 hours ago, kimchi said:

A good effort indeed but you'll have to go some way to beating Britney Spears having If You Seek Amy played at breakfast time on the BBC for a few days before they 'realised'. I almost crashed my car the first time I heard it!

'All of the boys and all of the girls are begging to if (F) you (U) seek (C,K) Amy (ME)'

Good lord!

Well alrighty then. See you next Tuesday

[silenceissilver]

9 hours ago, AppleZippoandMetronome said:

I agree that the banks can and do scan accounts but I don't think it happens the way you have said here. I don't think anyone at the bank is scanning accounts. That process will have been automated long ago with algorithms set up to look for inconsistencies or odd behaviour and flag those accounts. That said I don't really care that my account will show I shopped at Tesco tonight or that I made a purchase from Amazon earlier this week. The reality of the society we live in especially in the UK and even more especially if you are in a city is that everything you do pretty much is traceable. I accept that I could make it harder to be tracked by using cash but I simply don't see the point. I don't see how I personally gain anything by throwing up that obstacle when anyone looking in to my life or investigating me could find out where I spend my money without much difficulty.

There are much bigger things that keep me up at night or cause me to worry than someone at the bank possibly seeing where I do most of my shopping or the ridiculous amount I spend on dog food.

Of course it's partly automated. But I know someone whose job it is to scan through accounts and manually wave a red flag if he finds something suspicious. Even if you don't care about purchases at supermarkets showing up, if almost everyone pays by card there, dissidents will struggle to buy food. I have mentioned some examples of how high profile dissidents are treated already today. It's not rocket sciense to see this will increase in quality and quantity with less and less usage of cash.

[silenceissilver]

1 hour ago, KevinFlynn said:

I'm feeling like this every time I am withdrawing the vast sums needed to fuel my gold and silver hobby. I know that if someone watches they will most certainly ask "hmm, what the hell did he do with that".

If I should be asked, I would say "drugs and whores" 😛

This person l mentioned in my previous answer, to @AppleZippoandMetronome also told me about one case where someone's transfer of a high sum to a bookie was stopped. He just wanted to bet. He had already put a smallish sum on a winning horse. They thought it's about money laundering. It went to court. He won the case, the bank should not have stopped the transfer. He had lost loads of money because his horse won. He didn't get any compensation from the bank though. This arbitrariness and being dependant on the whim of other people to spend your own money the way you want to, will increase dramatically, should there be no cash anymore. I will ask him if big or regular PM purchases are a red flag, the next time, I seem him.

[silenceissilver]

9 hours ago, GoodAsGold said:

@silenceissilver Why are you trying to preach to someone who uses bank cards for payments - people who you label as i***ts?  Sorry but I can't be clever enough to understand your rhetoric, although some of my own opinions on how the world is run may not be too far from some of your own but who knows? I prefer to keep my head under the parapet, not get shot down and definitely not insult a large percentage of forum members by classing us as i***ts. Trying to preach to i***ts make you one too my friend. Welcome to our club mate. Mind how you go.

I gave you a laughing smiley for your reponse as it made me chuckle. However, I'm "preaching" to the undecided. Preaching to the committed ones (on either side) never goes anyware.

[sovereignsteve]

4 hours ago, Mcgrimes said:

I think they say it's a 1 in  50,000 match? I'd say it's a good deterrent 

The random chance of a duplicate match is irrelevant, it's the pernicious side of hacking and fraud that's the problem.

You're fingerprints are yours for life. Think how screwed you'd be if the world totally relied on this type of security; you lost your phone or had it stolen by hackers, who then extracted the image of your prints from it! 😲

 

[KDave]

1 hour ago, silenceissilver said:

This person l mentioned in my previous answer, to @AppleZippoandMetronome also told me about one case where someone's transfer of a high sum to a bookie was stopped. He just wanted to bet. He had already put a smallish sum on a winning horse. They thought it's about money laundering. It went to court. He won the case, the bank should not have stopped the transfer. He had lost loads of money because his horse won. He didn't get any compensation from the bank though. This arbitrariness and being dependant on the whim of other people to spend your own money the way you want to, will increase dramatically, should there be no cash anymore. I will ask him if big or regular PM purchases are a red flag, the next time, I seem him.

That raises a good point as is the earlier point on cash eventually not being accepted by places such as at supermarkets, if enough people stop using it.

We have laws to stop electricity/phone companies refusing services, only for lack of payment. Yet the banks can stop any transaction to prevent 'fraud' or what they think is money laundering. Your example proves they can abuse that without repercussions. They can also refuse services, close bank accounts any time they like for any reason. They have been doing, MasterCard and PayPal have closed accounts based on political views and things said online. This system and set up, it's all rather dystopian. 

[Mcgrimes]

43 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

The random chance of a duplicate match is irrelevant, it's the pernicious side of hacking and fraud that's the problem.

You're fingerprints are yours for life. Think how screwed you'd be if the world totally relied on this type of security; you lost your phone or had it stolen by hackers, who then extracted the image of your prints from it! 😲

 

I'm aware that finger prints aren't fool proof, nor is a pin code, or a passport, or maiden name etc etc

But what is?

[Scuzzle]

I use cash as often as I can and I keep a few thousand around the house as well as my metals.  It's a pain swapping out the old paper notes for the new plastic ones but other than that I believe it is worth having.  I also keep all my hole in the wall receipts when I withdraw cash so if I ever get the money laundering accusation levelled at me I will just tip out a ton of withdrawal receipts and claim I built it up over the years and here the proof.

At the moment I am currently diversifying again into Seiko watches, I've noticed that Seiko 5's that you can pick up for £50 are usually always worth £50, if you go onto the Cash Converters website a tatty scratched up old Seiko 5 is still over £50 so I've been buying these instead of 2oz silver recently as a hedge against inflation physical asset.

I use cards for internet purchases only but I use a PAYG debit card for stuff off Ebay or from China etc. if I am going to make a purchase I fund it from my bank account with the amount required then make the purchase, this way if anyone ever scams me there is no money in there to lose.  The places that insist on automatic renewal love me.