What if We Have a No Deal Brexit ?

[Martlet]

Yes taking this up with MPs, especially if pro-brexit and focus on the investment angle would hopefully gain traction.  A small, fringe change to VAT rules to show "we are in charge", while not impacting meaningfully on wider VAT (lets be honest, general VAT aint going anywhere)

[sovereignsteve]

2 hours ago, SouthCoastInvestor said:

It would be a good sensible policy to encourage investment / saving in silver bullion and to remove the "anomaly" whereby gold is not taxed but silver is.

Don't poke the tiger, you're more likely to get tax slapped on gold as well.

[silenceissilver]

On 01/02/2019 at 20:20, SouthCoastInvestor said:

Here is an idea: why don't we as a group start a campaign to lobby the government to remove VAT on silver bullion, to bring it into line with gold bullion ?  We could all write to our MPs.

The idea is principally good but writing your MP is not how it works. It would have to be activism like Greenpeace or Generation Identity do it. ... Images say more than 1000 words:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwRV2bYGa5E

Outside the HQ of HM Revenue & Customs:

A pile of cardboard "silver" with a poor looking pensioner and a banner saying: Why is there a 20% tax on my pension savings?

Effect - 100 times bigger than any letter to your MP. They won't even read that.

[Oldun]

3 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

Don't poke the tiger, you're more likely to get tax slapped on gold as well.

This. 100% this.

[sixgun]

6 hours ago, SouthCoastInvestor said:

I wasn't thinking about the online petition route, rather getting people to talk to their local MPs about the issue.  I don't think removing VAT on silver coins would require legislation - it could be done in the budget by the Chancellor.

The budget is enacted through the Finance Bill. It is legislation.

[Pipers]

Quite a few of us have imported from the USA and it is a pain in the ass, Australia is not as bad though there prices are higher.  Best thing is to have a family member or a good friend who sends you presents/gifts a few times a year! 

Importing from the USA you will have to use the correct commodity code then fill in a form at customs as it is held up for a couple of days other wise the courier will charge you at least an extra £7.80 upwards if I remember.  All in all buying from the USA is very bad experience compared with buying from Europe.  My recommendation would be to be do your figures you may be better just buying gold. 

It wouldn't surprise me if this government put vat on gold it. 

 

[gji25]

it was actually the european union who invented vat 

[Michal]

4 hours ago, gji25 said:

it was actually the european union who invented vat 

I think it was introduced before EU was even created. 

[Coolsmp]

Two things are certain in life. Death and taxes.... goes back to Roman times

[SouthCoastInvestor]

14 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

Don't poke the tiger, you're more likely to get tax slapped on gold as well.

Yes, I do think that is a real risk, maybe better to keep this all off the radar of the b******s.

 

[silversky]

It's complete hypocrisy for the German led EU to push vat laws on silver for other members of the EU while allowing German and Belgian dealers to charge vat only on their profit margin.  German dealers have cornered the market as a result and they have devastated the dealers in the rest of Europe that tow the line.  Once the UK leaves, it has a genuine chance to redress the balance in this area if it chooses to do so.  Just imagine if UK dealers were suddenly able to sell silver VAT free.  It would immediately return all of that business currently going to Germany, Belgium and Estonia back to the UK.  If they do nothing and continue with VAT on silver then 95% of the business volume will collapse.  The Germans won't get it and nor will HMRC.  It will simply evaporate somewhere else.  So, the correct way to propose this is that the UK dealers would have a sudden boom if the VAT on silver was removed and that boom in sales would increase their profit margins.  This would then be taxable to the HMRC and they would in fact make a gain on silver for the first time in a very long time.  Currently they make nothing on silver and by de VAT-ing it they stand to make money on dealer profits.  Of course, the counter argument is that they will force everyone into gold instead and make the additional tax on dealers profits but it's surely worth a shot.  Making the point that without attention, the UK would become the only country in Europe actively preventing a silver market and making nothing out of it.  Preventing business is not a good way to start Brexit.  Brexiteers are keen to support business and open the UK up to opportunity so this could well be a persuasive argument for the right politician.

[Michal]

Remember that lite ones save in silver. They are not interest in small savers, government prefer that you save in their currency that they can steal it in inflation. Rich people save in gold.

[cravethatcoin]

Quote

Clock is ticking! Only 50 days left!
 

The United Kingdom is due to leave the EU on 29 March 2019, time flies and soon customers in UK will not be able to buy anymore VAT Free Silver. If you are located in the UK, now is the time to stack some silver from the European Mint before it’s too late.

Just receieved this in an email from the European Mint.

The question is does anyone know for 100% fact that UK VAT will will have to be charged after brexit? If this is the case it would be a good thing for anyone who owns silver but not for those looking to buy more. Surly if UK VAT has to be charged then that will add a instant premium to silver sold on the secondary market? We could all see maybe a half VAT increase of 10%.

[EdNug]

1 minute ago, cravethatcoin said:

Surly if UK VAT has to be charged then that will add a instant premium to silver sold on the secondary market? We could all see maybe a half VAT increase of 10%.

Reckon you could be right, but will there be any silver bullion buyers left?  Silver buying focus will likely turn from bullion to numismatics, but most of the bullion trade will probably switch to gold and crypto. Imho, of course.

[BackyardBullion]

17 minutes ago, cravethatcoin said:

Just receieved this in an email from the European Mint.

The question is does anyone know for 100% fact that UK VAT will will have to be charged after brexit? If this is the case it would be a good thing for anyone who owns silver but not for those looking to buy more. Surly if UK VAT has to be charged then that will add a instant premium to silver sold on the secondary market? We could all see maybe a half VAT increase of 10%.

To be honest we already see this premium on the true secondary market - ebay. You often cannot get decent silver coins for less than £20 each at the moment 

All this no deal brexit situation will do is cut off the ability for those sellers to get cheap stock to even make a margin on. 

It will also force all serious silver investors into gold

Silver will die (in the short term) as a serious investment if we get a no deal brexit. 

[AppleZippoandMetronome]

19 minutes ago, cravethatcoin said:

The question is does anyone know for 100% fact that UK VAT will will have to be charged after brexit?

The only thing I know is that no one knows for sure what is going to happen after Brexit. The European Mint will be going on the basis that silver shipments coming to the UK from the EU after Brexit are likely to be treated the same way as if they came from US, Canada or any other country outside of the EU. It seems a likely scenario in a no deal Brexit but no one knows for sure.

[BackyardBullion]

1 minute ago, AppleZippoandMetronome said:

The only thing I know is that no one knows for sure what is going to happen after Brexit. The European Mint will be going on the basis that silver shipments coming to the UK from the EU after Brexit are likely to be treated the same way as if they came from US, Canada or any other country outside of the EU. It seems a likely scenario in a no deal Brexit but no one knows for sure.

Which is the thing that makes this whole situation suck so badly for small businesses (and big ones) that cannot plan or understand what is happening in literally 49 days time!

[RoughDog]

On ‎03‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 07:54, Coolsmp said:

Two things are certain in life. Death and taxes.... goes back to Roman times

Not if death occurs before paying taxes.

[silversky]

On ‎03‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 07:33, Michal said:

I think it was introduced before EU was even created. 

This is from an article in the Telegraph in 2010.  "VAT was originally a French idea, started in the 1950s. Britain introduced it as part of its condition of joining the European Economic Community. All countries joining the EEC had to replace their indirect taxes with the VAT. It replaced the Purchase Tax, which was a fairly complex system that had many different rates."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7582869/VAT-a-brief-history.html

Personally I think it's a dreadful tax.  It manages to slow everything down and adds an enormous drag on every transaction in an economy.  It's nice and easy though for governments which is why it's their weapon of choice.  Without doubt it hits the least well off the hardest and it has some weird side effects as well.

[Michal]

35 minutes ago, silversky said:

...

As fare as i remember Value add tax was introduced in I WW by Germany or France? I don't remember exactly.

[sovereignsteve]

1 hour ago, RoughDog said:

Not if death occurs before paying taxes.

but then they get it afterwards

[cravethatcoin]

Great discussion everyone.

Will be interesting to see how it pans out.

I think the secondary market will see an increased demand if buying from Europe is no longer financially beneficial. I do also agree that there's a chance it could kill silver as an investment in the UK in terms of buying from retailers. Then again we have companies such as BullionByPost who charge VAT on all silver and from the outside seem to be doing very well. I would imagine that silver at spot or even with a 5% premium would be highly liquid in this scenario.

If the only way to buy silver was with 20% VAT added I would call it a day completely and focus on gold other investments.

[Michal]

Vault service will be at higher demand as well, but remember don't have it in hand then it is not yours.

[AppleZippoandMetronome]

17 hours ago, BackyardBullion said:

Which is the thing that makes this whole situation suck so badly for small businesses (and big ones) that cannot plan or understand what is happening in literally 49 days time!

Science too. There was a good piece done by CBC News' The National highlighting the problems facing scientists who are desperate to be able to start planning for a post Brexit world. They focused on two cancer researchers who have up and moved to hospitals in Toronto to carry on their research as they couldn't get clarification from government over what they will need to do come March 29th. The country needs to be gaining these people - not losing them. The governments inability to inform people over what to expect is definitely causing damage.

[Guest]

Purchase Tax was renamed into Value Added Tax in UK, but it had been there since 1940. And it was actually much higher, fluctuating between 33% to even 100% in 1943.

If anything, joining the then EEC, tax on purchases went down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax_in_the_United_Kingdom#History