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angus

Gold Price prjection - what do you think?

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ok sorry i am very noob here. i have just started stacking since 2 months ago

so if both gold and silver are  no longer manipulated and left to achieve their free will equilibrium. what prices are we looking at ?

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What time frame are you talking ? We all come with an expiry date ! It is also still pointless to keep pushing this.....allowed to agenda...the price is whatever someone is willing to pay at any given time.I would get your head out of the clouds as a newbie and just quietly tuck some aside.....without overdoing it.....

Just trying to advise as it is easy to get your head turned at the start of stacking by idiots with silly numbers.

Edited by Oldun

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27 minutes ago, angus said:

there are so many differing views here

so the key is -

 are the prices of both gold and silver kept artificially low by paper shorts? that is the question

 :)

Not sure if this helps!

 

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The price of gold is managed as other currencies are. Gold is money. It trades as a currency on the Forex markets. It trades as part of many currency pairs, XAU/GBP, XAU/USD and so on. It is money and this is why you will see it on the main screens of all the financial media outlets. Silver is also a currency and trades against other currencies. XAG/GBP, XAG/USD and of course XAU/XAG where it trades against the gold currency.

Gold is direct competition to other currencies, the main one  of interest to governments is the world reserve currency, the USD. The central banks hold gold in their reserves because it is money.  Money differs from fiat currencies in that it is a long term store of value which fiat is not. Fiat is constantly depreciating - this is why we see prices marked in fiat constantly rising. 

Money is generally measured against something else. What it can get you. How much silver an ounce of gold is worth, how many USD an ounce is worth. As most people are not dealing in gold as their everyday currency we have to convert our gold into currencies they are using. We are starting to see asset backed, gold and silver backed digital  currencies where you will be able to use gold and silver as everyday currencies again. We will have to see how this pans out. As gold is a store of value, as it preserves purchasing power, it is a very powerful alternative to fiat and is why central banks and governments fear gold - they cannot create gold out of thin air andso they would rather people just forgot about it and imagined it was a commodity used as jewellery and in circuit boards. 

Edited by sixgun

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1 hour ago, Oldun said:

It doesn’t matter.......the agreed price is what you accept.......as with everything and everything......

An illustration:

If in a job interview, you are told you will get the job right now should you be paid a monthly salary $100 less than the previous interviewer. Should you agree because you need a job that pays. If you don’t, someone else will eventually. Supposed landed in the job, to find out someone’s doing the same job for $200 more than you. Such is the nature with price agreement.

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1 minute ago, Au79 said:

An illustration:

If in a job interview, you are told you will get the job right now should you be paid a monthly salary $100 less than the previous interviewer. Should you agree because you need a job that pays. If you don’t, someone else will eventually. Supposed landed in the job, to find out someone’s doing the same job for $200 more than you. Such is the nature with price agreement.

that explains the current price for 1 oz of gold in venzuela, so prices are fixed by mutual consensus

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Agreement is agreement in the situation at the time. For the final time, it does not matter if you think it is unfair etc......carry on.......and as you were......no point repeating myself here anymore :)

Edited by Oldun

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20 minutes ago, Oldun said:

Agreement is agreement in the situation at the time. For the final time, it does not matter if you think it is unfair etc......carry on.......and as you were......no point repeating myself here anymore :)

i am ok and agree to what you have said, thanks :)

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1 minute ago, Oldun said:

If you notice, no one here is trying to sell you a fantasy number.....there are some wise heads here and welcome to the forum :)

thanks bro for sharing :)

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@Oldun is correct -   Agreement is agreement in the situation at the time. We pay the price we pay, it is what it is.

As i pointed out, the large gold trades are done on a deal-by-deal basis. You will not get to find out what the price paid is - they are often quite a bit higher than spot. The price we personally pay for our gold is what we pay at the time. Be glad the prices are low. Unless you have all the gold you ever want then to wish for a much higher price does not make sense.

The price of gold and silver is suppressed, it is manipulated. This is a fact of the gold and silver markets where entities with much more power than us operate. Gold is direct competition to fiat and since fiat is the life blood of the world economies there are some extremely powerful entities working against gold.

Gold and silver will win out in the end b/c fiat always goes to zero in the end. The low price of gold is bad for the miners but good for gold buyers. Price suppression is harming mining and especially exploration. In the end this will affect the price of metals as the supply of new metal falls away.

Gold and especially silver are long term plays. As i say they will win in the end. They are real money and preserve value over the longer term. Depending on when you bought your gold, gold has been a good investment. i remember reading an article in 2000 on gold and gold bugs. i had always been interested in gold miners but not the actual gold. At that time the article was making out gold was a dead loss but you could never keep a gold bug down. i wish i had read between the lines on that article. i could have had £millions in gold today but we cannot turn the clock back. Gold was some silly price - under £200. i had plenty of spare money in those days, i wish i wish i have put it into gold instead of other crack pot ideas.

So whilst the price is suppressed see it as the elite making you a gift of cheaper gold. As i say i wish, oh i wish i had taken that gift of cheap gold in the early 2000's.

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8 hours ago, sixgun said:

The price of gold and silver is suppressed,

 

this not true, as in any market there is manipulation when

traders cannot resist the temptation.

manipulators manipulate the gold price both up and down.

let's make this clear: the people who manipulate the gold

price manipulate it up.

this is not a government backed suppression.

why do they manipulate it up? because it makes them

money. as a trader you'd be stupid to only manipulate it

down. you'd be giving up half of your profits by not

trading it up as well. manipulators are traders, they know

how trading works in both directions, (up and down).

 

miners are sellers of gold. they want a higher price.

bullion banks are buyers of gold. they want a lower

price.

how can you claim that a bullion bank making an offer

at a lower price is suppression?

should we call all miners pumpers of price?

the futures market paper trading is where all parties

interested can negotiate on the price.

(currently the bullion banks have the edge because it's a

buyers market)

 

I think many here started holding pm's as way to make

them rich(me too, I've been there). with experience

some are coming round to the more realistic idea that

it's a good way to save purchasing power.

 

HH

Edited by HawkHybrid

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We have recently seen the issue of Australian gold (allegedly) held in the BoE which the BoE is playing hard to get with it. They want to check it but must tell the BoE well in advance and tell them which numbered bars they want to see - i can only hazard a guess there will need to be enough time send out an order to Switzerland to cast those numbered bars but i am just a conspiracy theorist, so what do i know.
We have recently seen the refusal of the BoE to return Venezuelan gold (allegedly) held in the BoE.
We saw the issue of the refusal by Deutsche Bank returning a depositor's gold. It happens - small print is referred to and it is settled in cash.
We know that it is perfectly legal to rehypothecate (loan out multiple times) gold to infinity in London.
We know that there is no legal requirement for there to be any gold in unallocated (gold) accounts.
i forget now which bank was caught out charging vaulting and insurance fees to customers for holding gold that never existed. If you have an unallocated account do not expect you have any gold.
We know that there is 100's of times more paper than actual physical.
We know 1000's of tonnes of gold have officially left the West not counting the gold that goes under the radar.
We remember Brown''s bottom where this traitor sold off the nation's gold at the very bottom of the market and told the people it was to pay for social services when actually it was to suppress the gold price and and to bail out Goldman Sachs.
We remember the IMF gold which seemed like forever was threatened to be sold to keep price down - interestingly when it was sold, price went up.
We remember all the problems the Germans had getting back some of their gold - they never did get the original bars back. They got brand new bars. Although the controlled media put out the Germans got their gold back much of it still hasn't been returned.

There is a vast amount of gold leased out many many times over which has actually been sold off. There is a vast amount of unallocated gold which never existed.
Now that can be managed and juggled at the moment. It was easy before the Chinese and Russians et al started buying up 1000's of tonnes of gold from the West. It can still be managed for a little while longer. The usual suspects are caught, caught in a trap of their own making. When all the leasing, loans, promised, sold off blah blah gold eventually has to be settled - and of course it cannot be settled in physical b/c that doesn't exist, they will refer to some small print in the contracts and settle for cash. This is an issue but what if the gold price were to run away with itself and what if the people got a dose of gold fever and started buying it for themselves?

If you talk to professional traders who are playing the paper game, the risk with gold is never to the downside, the risk is gold will just take off in price and go to the Moon. Bad if you get caught short a few contracts, now imagine the problem getting caught short 1000's of tonnes if price got out of control and went to the Moon. The thought is unconscionable. Price has to be kept under control. It has to be kept down. All the bullion banks would blow up, all the trading houses who have been carrying out years of dirty work would go under. It is suggested all the debt will be settled in cash at a keystroke but it will be a mountain of cash and no-one wants it to be on their watch.

The gold price is suppressed. It is too expensive not to keep it suppressed.

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1 hour ago, sixgun said:

The gold price is suppressed. It is too expensive not to keep it suppressed.

 

you are jumping to conclusions, there is no proof of this.

 

spilt milk caused me to buy baked beans, therefore spilling

milk must increase the buying of baked beans... (really?)

 

HH

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so do you believe that spilt milk raises the demand for

baked beans?

 

(you just listed a series of things that have happened and

what might happen, lots of 'if' scenarios but nothing that

actually leads to your conclusion)

 

manipulation occurs to move the price both up and down.

the direction for manipulation is not what's important.

what is important is you make a bet before hand and then

manipulate the price to go in 'your' favour in order to make

money. as a manipulator you are cheating the system for

personal benefit. this is far from concrete proof to prove

government suppression theories.

 

HH

Edited by HawkHybrid

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You are talking about the speculative trader who does not care which way price moves as long as they have the correct bet. Profit can be made irrespective of the direction of price movement as long as you are on the correct side of the bet. They are betting on the price. The investment vehicle can be gold, silver, milk or beans. It doesn't matter as long as the spread is tight and there is adequate liquidity and volatility. You are correct in what you say about this aspect of the market. This is one aspect of the market and only one aspect of the market.

Quote

We looked into the abyss if the gold price rose further. A further rise would have taken down one or several trading houses, which might have taken down all the rest in their wake. Therefore at any price, at any cost, the central banks had to quell the gold price, manage it. It was very difficult to get the gold price under control but we have now succeeded. The US Fed was very active in getting the gold price down. So was the U.K.

Eddie George - Governor of the BoE

From the horse's mouth.

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53 minutes ago, angus said:

May I know what is the conclusion?

Is the gold price manipulated upwards or downwards?

Western central banks, trading houses and bullion banks run a fractional reserve gold bullion scam. The central banks do this to bolster their fiat currencies, the commercial banks do it for greed and profit.

Gold has been sold to China and the like which has depleted gold holdings in the West. This is a matter of fact. The gold has left the UK and US and it has gone to Asia. The UK doesn't mine gold so it has come out of the vaults. This is 1000's and 1000's of tonnes. This is a matter of fact. The gold has been sold and there are massive IOU's in their place. Ultimately the IOU's will have to be settled. A rising price of gold results in a rising cost to settle the IOU. So the price is capped - price is kept in a range. Profit can be made in the price range and it keeps the cost of IOU's down.

Why is this done, why does gold matter?

Quote

"Gold is money, everything else is credit."

JP Morgan

 

Edited by sixgun

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eddie george in office 1 July 1993 – 30 June 2003

I don't know what context that text was taken out of.

so during his time in office he was supposedly suppressing

the gold price from the heady heights of ~$400/oz

(1993-2003 top). in order to not to risk a collapse of up to all

the trading houses. yet in 2011 gold reaches a meagre

$1900/oz. but that's ok and well within the boundaries for the

trading houses to not collapse due to their on going short

positions.

(I'm finding the figures hard to believe)

(maybe this quote of him is just an excuse to justify gordon

brown's choice to sell most of britains gold. the figures don't

add up so it looks like a lot of politics to me)

 

HH

 

Edited by HawkHybrid

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18 hours ago, HawkHybrid said:

eddie george in office 1 July 1993 – 30 June 2003

I don't know what context that text was taken out of.

so during his time in office he was supposedly suppressing the gold price from the heady heights of ~$400/oz (1993-2003 top). in order to not to risk a collapse of up to all the trading houses. yet in 2011 gold reaches a meagre $1900/oz. but that's ok and well within the boundaries for the trading houses to not collapse due to their on going short positions.

(I'm finding the figures hard to believe) (maybe this quote of him is just an excuse to justify gordon brown's choice to sell most of britains gold. the figures don't add up so it looks like a lot of politics to me)

HH

 

Perhaps you might do your own research. i can't help you any further.

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