GOLD PENSION PLANS AND 1OZ COIN PER YEAR

[ludo]

Hi All

I am putting this out there and hopefully someone can help shed some light on the matter for me please!:)

From next year I am looking to invest £100/month into Gold in some way for my future. My plan is to use this to buy a (1oz) gold coin or bar per year, to build a collection.

Also I have been watching Roy Sebag from GOLDMONEY.com on Keiser report and seen the GOLD Pension Plan offered by them through StandardLife (UK Citizen) which is a Self-Invested Personal Pension Plan.

So I guess I need to know which is best, safest to do? OR BOTH? I guess we will get some tax relief if using an official pension plan like this, but in the event of a national disaster in some form, it isn't tangible and gold coins are.......

Please help if you can..........:) 

 

[HawkHybrid]

I vote sovereigns. (keep on reading and gathering data).

it's more flexible going forward if you start by keeping

possession of your gold coins. as your savings expand

and hopefully you understand the gold market better you

can then explore other areas. either way you'll want to

put together a unique strategy for yourself.

 

HH

[mr-dead]

A smidge more and you can get a half Sovereign a month or a full Sovereign every 2 months.

Will help cost average your gold better than buying 1 X 1oz coin per year.  Also stops you dipping into your monthly savings.

[Bullionbilly]

Both good points above.

Wise words regards the sovereigns mr-dead.

[mustynewb]

I've been buying a half sovereign every month to slowly build up a "stack" o er the next 20/30 years

[KitboyE17]

If you can, do both. Pay into a SIPP or better still a contributory pension plan from your employer and buy bullion as an investor. If you are young enough and can afford it you don’t need to put too much into the pension to start with. The quicker you can save/invest the more you will have in the future. 

[terakris]

If it was one or the other I'd say pension hands down. Personally I wouldn't be happy putting my entire retirement portfolio into 1 sector, if it fails to perform you will be at the mercy to sell when you don't want to. Get a pension build that up and then start looking at going into pm a bit . I have some on the side but I could never sleep at night thinking all my retirement was in one sector. 

Spread the risk around more and make gold part of your plan, not your entire plan.

[Seasider]

https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/gold-pensions/

Interesting page on the Bullion by Post site.  It seems you can only put gold bars into a pension not coins.  Sovereigns also fail on the purity test as they are less than .995 fine.

Personally I would not put gold in a pension plan in any event.  I think the poster above who talks about a balanced portfolio is right and gold would form only a small fraction of such a portfolio if it even featured at all.  And ultimately a pension is about providing you with an income and gold will not do that so you would have to sell it either to buy an annuity or in chunks to allow a draw down of income.  Yes I know you can take it all out in one lump but if it was a significant amount that would not be a good idea from a tax perspective.

Yes with a pension you get a tax deduction on the way in and tax free growth but you face tax on the way out (except for a tax free lump sum of 25%) and the government seem determined to make the rules ever more complicated and you can end up with some significant tax rates if you get the wrong side of the limits.  Bear in mind that if you hold sovereigns or half sovereigns outside a pension plan you will not be getting any income so no income tax to worry about and won't face any CGT when you sell them so the best tax features of a pension (tax free growth of the investments) will be irrelevant.

By all means get a pension (and yes that should be a priority even with the current watered down state of pensions in this country) but if you want some gold - especially coins such as sovereigns - keep that as a separate matter from the pension.

[silverbeaker]

On 04/11/2018 at 13:30, Seasider said:

https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/gold-pensions/

Interesting page on the Bullion by Post site.  It seems you can only put gold bars into a pension not coins.  Sovereigns also fail on the purity test as they are less than .995 fine.

Personally I would not put gold in a pension plan in any event.  I think the poster above who talks about a balanced portfolio is right and gold would form only a small fraction of such a portfolio if it even featured at all.  And ultimately a pension is about providing you with an income and gold will not do that so you would have to sell it either to buy an annuity or in chunks to allow a draw down of income.  Yes I know you can take it all out in one lump but if it was a significant amount that would not be a good idea from a tax perspective.

Yes with a pension you get a tax deduction on the way in and tax free growth but you face tax on the way out (except for a tax free lump sum of 25%) and the government seem determined to make the rules ever more complicated and you can end up with some significant tax rates if you get the wrong side of the limits.  Bear in mind that if you hold sovereigns or half sovereigns outside a pension plan you will not be getting any income so no income tax to worry about and won't face any CGT when you sell them so the best tax features of a pension (tax free growth of the investments) will be irrelevant.

By all means get a pension (and yes that should be a priority even with the current watered down state of pensions in this country) but if you want some gold - especially coins such as sovereigns - keep that as a separate matter from the pension.

@ludo correct me if I am wrong but @Seasider I think you missed the point of the original post.

I don’t think this is about actually putting your gold in to a pension, but, as is the case with myself, saving in gold too to add to my savings portfolio come retirement. 

My plan personally is to save as much as I reasonably can with my pension, I am lucky that my employer will match up to 12% so it is a no brainier really. As well as this save with an ISA, keep a pot of cash in case of emergencies in a generic savings account and also vary the portfolio with a sovereign every month or so, the reason being is that it is a very liquid asset and over time I hope (and believe) it will hold its value better than cash in a standard account. 

The gold for me isn’t an investment as such and it certainly isn’t a get rich quick scheme, it is a rainy day fund that one day might help to buy cars, fridge freezers, a carpet etc. 

[Tingles]

I personally invest in 4 sectors... a pension, precious metals, recently cryptos and a rich widow.

The latter has been most pleasurable and rewarding.

EDIT: and CGT exempt!

[Thelonerangershorse]

1 hour ago, Tingles said:

I personally invest in 4 sectors... a pension, precious metals, recently cryptos and a rich widow.

If you wish to diversify further, rich divorcees are also available.

[Tingles]

19 minutes ago, Thelonerangershorse said:

If you wish to diversify further, rich divorcees are also available.

Diversification in this area is not an option for me.  She is an excellent shot (clay pigeon shooting) and she pointed out that I was a large, slow-moving target.  She held up a clay and said she's more used to 'powdering' these so she just couldn't miss - even if I zigzagged.  I took the warning.

[Seasider]

On ‎03‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 15:04, ludo said:

Also I have been watching Roy Sebag from GOLDMONEY.com on Keiser report and seen the GOLD Pension Plan offered by them through StandardLife (UK Citizen) which is a Self-Invested Personal Pension Plan.

 

5 hours ago, silverbeaker said:

I don’t think this is about actually putting your gold in to a pension, but, as is the case with myself, saving in gold too to add to my savings portfolio come retirement. 

@silverbeaker I was reacting to the bit in his post on the GOLD Pension Plan.  He was asking if he should use that in isolation or together with a 1 oz gold coin a year outside a pension or just buy the coin outside a pension.

I think you and I agree that putting gold into a pension plan is not a good idea.  

 

 

[silverbeaker]

5 minutes ago, Seasider said:

 

@silverbeaker I was reacting to the bit in his post on the GOLD Pension Plan.  He was asking if he should use that in isolation or together with a 1 oz gold coin a year outside a pension or just buy the coin outside a pension.

I think you and I agree that putting gold into a pension plan is not a good idea.  

 

 

I see, hadn’t made that connection, do apologise.

but yes i think we do agree

[Mike]

I max out my ISA every year in diversified funds.  My pension is already maxed out (legacy DB scheme with X20 multiplier) - Personally I like having the physical gold.  It gives me a reassurance that I am not completely reliant on the fiscal system - not that I have sufficient to replace my pension and ISA pots 😂 But I could cash it all in and exist for a year if I needed to

I’m sure I read somewhere that “electronic” gold funds don’t actually own physical gold, that worries me that they could get caught short, literally

[ludo]

Wow thanks to everyone for your input it has helped👍   I have my first sovereign, an 1879 Queen Victoria.

I will look to buy a British sovereign every other month when possible (Not proof coins) Are half sovereigns better or more collectable I wonder ?

I don't think I will go for the proofs as they are pricey, I just want bullion sovereigns which will hopefully always be off-loadable for cash even if showing signs of wear.

I think I have the gold bug now!!  

Are 1g gold bars just as good as sovereigns for holding wealth until the need for quick sale? 

Also someone told me Australian proof coins are a good bet, so i'll do some research. To be continued.....

[silenceissilver]

I think a sovereign every two months is the best way to go forward, if you want to stick to exactly 100 per month you can carry the access over and sometimes make it every 3 months (first month 100, secone month 100, third month 100 and buying a sovereign, e.g. 60 left, next month you have 160 etc till you have enough for the next sovereign).

Although I like the idea of diversifying, it also should be taken into account that our monetary system, historically, crashes every other generation, so unless you are close to your pension, PMs are a great way to get through the crash without loss. That's the way for me anyway. Unfortunately I still have some locked/illiquid assets but I'm trying to liquidate them as soon as reasonably (without loss) possible, so probably another few months. AFTER the crash, a part will proabably go into a private pension fund as the problem with your own gold and pension is that you don't know how long you will live and thus how much gold you need. What if you think, saving for dying at age X is certainly enough and then you get even older?! Thus a shared pot with other people makes sense in order to even different dying ages out. Unfortunately, this means depending on third parties that can simply change the contract (government, so they can just announce, sorry guys, we promised amount X but now it's much less you'll get per month (also indirectly via loss of purchasing power, without any announcement) and companies are bound to paper markets that crash every other generation, as said. So my plan is to use PMs to carry it over the crash and THEN (actually only once close to pension age) to go into paper/dependencies on third parties, to some extent anyway. Isn't this speculative? Much less so than going for paper markets/promises now, im my opinion. There is the monetary system caused crash that is due sooner or later (of coures if you are close to your pension that's another factor, you don't know if the crash will happen during your pension), plus there is the demographic replacement of Europeans  which will, if unstopped, make inter-generational contracts obsolete. I don't even understand how you can talk about pensions to be received in a few decades (presumably) and leave this elephant in the room out. For me that is a factor to keep a bit more in PMs, even after the crash and into the pension.

[ChrisF]

On 13/12/2018 at 17:44, ludo said:

Are half sovereigns better or more collectable I wonder ?

From my limited understanding of Sovereigns, in general they are for stacking, there are some collectors years but Id stick to getting the cheapest you can.  I treat them as something I can dump when and if I need to in the future.  Just my own opinion...