What to do.

[SilverFlame]

Hello again lovely forum. Looking for some advice. Got some money coming in that I want to invest. The silver to gold ratio is now about 77 to 1. Are you guys staying purely in silver when the ratio is this high. Or would you also buy gold?? I know there are different opinions and I just want to hear for and against in the current market since I'm fairly new to  stacking. 

 

All comments are greatfully welcomed. 

Kind regards 

[AllThingsShiny]

Would it be rude to ask how much you will have to invest? Be easier to advise if we knew your budget

[SilverFlame]

6 minutes ago, AllThingsShiny said:

Would it be rude to ask how much you will have to invest? Be easier to advise if we knew your budget

Not rude at all. It's basically about my Monthly spending ranging from 600 to 800 eur. So an option is also to save for a bit and buy bulk if it makes sense to do so. Just trying to feel the market as it is now. My plan is for now pure silver. But Im tempted to flirt with 1/2 or 1/4 oz gold. 

[AllThingsShiny]

My stacking technique is to spend 75% of my budget on silver and the other 25% on gold. At this current time with the gsr so wide I have been buying a lot more silver than gold. with your budget you should be able to pick up 50 ounces of 999 silver on the cheaper government minted bullion coins. 50 ounces is a fair amount of silver

[SILVERFINGER]

Its best most times to not put all your eggs in one basket and have possibly a mix of silver, gold and platinum, and possibly a mix of coins and bars, funds allowing, there is 2 ways of collecting, buy something you really like, that way if the value drops you dont mind being stuck with it, the minus side is you might be hard pushed to want to sell it when the time comes, so in that case buy something more bland like plain bars, this will help you get more for your money and hopefully you wont be as attached to it (unless you are Golum out of Lord of my Ring films).

Just my view and not neccesary suitable/correct/desirable for everyone.

[SilverFlame]

2 minutes ago, SILVERFINGER said:

Its best most times to not put all your eggs in one basket and have possibly a mix of silver, gold and platinum, and possibly a mix of coins and bars, funds allowing, there is 2 ways of collecting, buy something you really like, that way if the value drops you dont mind being stuck with it, the minus side is you might be hard pushed to want to sell it when the time comes, so in that case buy something more bland like plain bars, this will help you get more for your money and hopefully you wont be as attached to it (unless you are Golum out of Lord of my Ring films).

Just my view and not neccesary suitable/correct/desirable for everyone.

Yah. Also why I'm considering saving for a little while and get a 1 Oz gold coin to just have gold. Cause I personally think gold is overvalued but I'm to new to actually make any kind of statement to that. I try my best to get info here and from backyard bullion and shadow stacker. And in general guys like them. They seem reasonable and are not doomsday peppers. 

 

Also my mind boggler.... If to go fractional when it comes to gold or stay 1 oz path. 

20 minutes ago, AllThingsShiny said:

My stacking technique is to spend 75% of my budget on silver and the other 25% on gold. At this current time with the gsr so wide I have been buying a lot more silver than gold. with your budget you should be able to pick up 50 ounces of 999 silver on the cheaper government minted bullion coins. 50 ounces is a fair amount of silver

Yah i see what u mean. Need to see what my ratio is now to see if it's time to buy gold or not. 

[SILVERFINGER]

Thats totally up to you if you want to go fractional, the small coins look fantastic, and they are not that small when you think that you have coins the same size and smaller like 5p pieces in your wallets.

Just buy from a reputable place or seller.

[SilverFlame]

Just now, SILVERFINGER said:

Thats totally up to you if you want to go fractional, the small coins look fantastic, and they are not that small when you think that you have coins the same size and smaller like 5p pieces in your wallets.

Just buy from a reputable place or seller.

My go to place is European mint. Because I'm from Denmark and not UK. And I have had only good experiences with them. 

[PansPurse]

I'm pretty bad at keeping to a ratio. I buy silver until I feel gold is under represented then buy a little gold. I'm probably at about a 50:1 kinda figure, maybe higher (talking weight rather than price)

[SilverFlame]

3 minutes ago, PansPurse said:

I'm pretty bad at keeping to a ratio. I buy silver until I feel gold is under represented then buy a little gold. I'm probably at about a 50:1 kinda figure, maybe higher (talking weight rather than price)

Having 1 oz gold for every 50 oz silver is in my brain also allot of gold. And will take a big toll on the funds. But I guess my brain needs to think differently. 

[Xander]

5 minutes ago, SilverFlame said:

Having 1 oz gold for every 50 oz silver is in my brain also allot of gold. And will take a big toll on the funds. But I guess my brain needs to think differently. 

It's easier to store 1oz of gold. Otherwise, personally, I would be stacking a lot more silver than at present. Of course, that could always change in the future.

[SilverFlame]

1 minute ago, Xander said:

It's easier to store 1oz of gold. Otherwise, personally, I would be stacking a lot more silver than at present. Of course, that could always change in the future.

Yah I can follow that. But. The price of gold is also very high in my humble opinion. And silver is really really cheap. I'm just trying to find my way in world where some say silver will increase in value "soon" and some say it never will. Some say gold will have a correction or that it will hit new highs... There is no way to get a technical analazys on this or any other indication. Because the market is as everything else manipulated by forces we can't comprehend. So I'm trying to make the best move In an unpredictable world. 

[Xander]

2 minutes ago, SilverFlame said:

Yah I can follow that. But. The price of gold is also very high in my humble opinion. And silver is really really cheap. I'm just trying to find my way in world where some say silver will increase in value "soon" and some say it never will. Some say gold will have a correction or that it will hit new highs... There is no way to get a technical analazys on this or any other indication. Because the market is as everything else manipulated by forces we can't comprehend. So I'm trying to make the best move In an unpredictable world. 

I think in the past the norm used to be 20/1, but as you say the markets are volatile, also there is manipulation, It's a case of doing some research, this forum for example, at least you can then make some kind of informed decision. It can also be fun. All the best.

[PansPurse]

33 minutes ago, SilverFlame said:

Having 1 oz gold for every 50 oz silver is in my brain also allot of gold. And will take a big toll on the funds. But I guess my brain needs to think differently. 

Possibly, I guess you're also working with a much bigger budget than me, do I just pick up a teeny tiny fractional every few months, which isn't too daunting

[HawkHybrid]

silver is a different investment than gold. work out your

own unique investment strategy and then choose the

combination that best fits. silver fits better for long term

investment as it's more volatile with a bigger spread.

(think of it like shoe size, it's more important to buy

shoes that fit better than to buy what is cheap) 

 

HH

[Xander]

3 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

shoes that fit better than to buy what is cheap) 

I can get into a size 2 if I'm getting them for nothing.?

[HawkHybrid]

1 minute ago, Xander said:

I can get into a size 2 if I'm getting them for nothing.?

 

problem is, ~£12/toz is not close to costing nothing.

 

HH

[vand]

Stack what you have a preference for. If you don't know, then imo it makes sense to start with some silver right now because it is relatively cheap, and if you are just starting out then storage won't become an issue until you have accumulated a few hundred ozs at least (IMO it isn't really an issue even with a few thousand ozs).

Over the last 2.5 years I have accumulated >1500oz of silver and just 1.5oz of gold (which I dipped into when the GSR fell below 70), and don't feel the need to rebalance to a bigger gold position because I know that it will automatically happen when their relative prices dictate it. No point in forcing it and screwing myself out of extra metal for my hard-earned fiat notes. 

 

[SILVERFINGER]

What you also have to take into account is,

Silver is getting used more and more in industry, industry that will become more widespread as the years go by like solar panels, medical use and other applications.

They reckon that most silver has been already mined and what is still left in the ground isnt cost effective to bring up.

Silver is quite often destroyed when it is used in industry unlike most gold which is recoverable, I can see demand for silver go up in the next ten years or so increasing value of it.

[RacerCool]

5 hours ago, SILVERFINGER said:

Its best most times to not put all your eggs in one basket and have possibly a mix of silver, gold and platinum, and possibly a mix of coins and bars, funds allowing, there is 2 ways of collecting, buy something you really like, that way if the value drops you dont mind being stuck with it, the minus side is you might be hard pushed to want to sell it when the time comes, so in that case buy something more bland like plain bars, this will help you get more for your money and hopefully you wont be as attached to it (unless you are Golum out of Lord of my Ring films).

Just my view and not neccesary suitable/correct/desirable for everyone.

That's an interesting point, and it reminds me of a quote from Tolkien, by way of Aragorn:

"One who cannot cast away a treasure at need is in fetters." (Two Towers, p. 203) 

[SilverFlame]

Thank you for all your replies guys. It really helps allot. My gut feeling tells me to go with silver. I'm trying my best to be nonbiaced towards this and use logics since I don't have a chosen preference yet. In my first month I accumulated 37oz if silver with a few proof coins. Some slabs ms69 and some gov minted coins. I am with 100% not gonna keep buying with such a large diversity. From now on its gov mint for weight and I think I am starting to form a plan in my head using all your much valued and appreciated information. Exactly why I joined this forum. 

[SilverFlame]

5 hours ago, SILVERFINGER said:

What you also have to take into account is,

Silver is getting used more and more in industry, industry that will become more widespread as the years go by like solar panels, medical use and other applications.

They reckon that most silver has been already mined and what is still left in the ground isnt cost effective to bring up.

Silver is quite often destroyed when it is used in industry unlike most gold which is recoverable, I can see demand for silver go up in the next ten years or so increasing value of it.

I actually went over this with a other guy not to long ago. What he said was that indeed most is used and they try to recycle but its not enough to not have to mine. But all this could also be a direct tactic from the mining companies to maximize their profits. The higher demand the more it costs. There is no reason for them to okay with open cards. Meaning they are not telling hoe much silver is actually left in the ground. If the world was truly runing out of silver deposites in the ground. I'm sure it would be headline news on all media outlets. This is not the case, so they must be holding back. 

 

But I do agree that the demand and usage of silver is increasing every year and will continue to do so exponentially. 

[PansPurse]

3 hours ago, SilverFlame said:

But I do agree that the demand and usage of silver is increasing every year and will continue to do so exponentially. 

I actually disagree on this one (my opinion, but not based on nothing). Silver is one of those industrial materials that is preferable, but not absolutely necessary. Like gold, which is better than copper for use in electronic circuitry, but the high cost mean it's only used a small number of components where its better performance justifies the cost.

There was a point a few years back where China supplied almost all industrial rare earth materials. The country tried to leverage its position but to little effect because companies switched to alternative materials.

In particular, advances in carbon nanomaterials could be disruptive to silver's use in industry (a recent study looking at the available literature concluded that carbon nanomaterials could potentially fill the role of pretty much all rare earth materials, apart from the jewelry sector).

In industrial terms I actually think platinum has much more growth potential because it's so useful as a catalyst for lots of applications beyond just catalytic converters on cars.

Just my thoughts, feel free to disagree ?

[bluemoon]

If you're in the EU then the 20% VAT must be factored into the GSR. Then you can decide if it's a good deal at any one time. One way around the issue is to sell back to places like Gumtree where you can sell back the VAT too without having to take the hit. It would be flushing your money down the toilet if you bought from a bullion dealer then sold back to the same dealers, because they don't buy back the VAT.

[HawkHybrid]

9 hours ago, SilverFlame said:

I actually went over this with a other guy not to long ago. What he said was that indeed most is used and they try to recycle but its not enough to not have to mine. But all this could also be a direct tactic from the mining companies to maximize their profits. The higher demand the more it costs. There is no reason for them to okay with open cards. Meaning they are not telling hoe much silver is actually left in the ground. If the world was truly runing out of silver deposites in the ground. I'm sure it would be headline news on all media outlets. This is not the case, so they must be holding back. 

 

But I do agree that the demand and usage of silver is increasing every year and will continue to do so exponentially. 

 

what do the figures say

https://www.silverinstitute.org/silver-supply-demand/

(for those who believe the silver institute is biased, feel free

to supply a link to more reliable data)

 

over a 10 year period 2008-17, silver demand was broadly

flat and silver supply up by ~10%. solar now makes up ~10%

of total demand. solar growth accounts for ~2% per year in

2015-17(growth in total silver demand accountable to solar).

it didn't really move much in the years prior to that.

each solar installation have a investment period of between

10-25 years before they are scrapped and a new one is

required. this means that almost all the years solar demand

on silver have been on new installations and very few

replacements. let's say new solar installation account for

continued 2% growth each year for the next 3 years. in the

bigger picture I would not call that 6% accumulated growth

over 3 years exponential. by comparison gold is mined at

~2000 tonnes per year(~1-2% growth). as gold is not consumed

most of the previous years gold is still there. so new buys are

required for the newly mined gold. the gold price have been rising

since 2015 so it can be estimated that over the same 2 year

period gold has had growth in demand of ~1-2%.

 

HH