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sixgun

Kinesis Gold and Silver currency

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The Tether comparison is made as Tether is probably the best known so called stable coin.  And your right that Tether is used mostly by crypto traders to get in an out of other crypto's  when their price plunges, and then trade back in on the rise.  Kinesis is aiming at that market (as well as others).  Given the choice, would someone who is temporarily exiting the bit coin market due to a down market rather hold their dollars in Tether, or Kinesis and receive a yield while doing so?  And now that the KAU and KAG can be bought with Tether directly they have made it easier to do so.  Can convert directly to Kinesis from bit coin or tether.

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I want to look at transaction assumptions made on pg 39 of the blueprint.

Average Market Capitalization (USD) 7,824,194,352 45,862,973,550 105,595,759,080 233,394,791,580 384,265,166,400
Velocity 1 30% 30% 30% 30% 30%
Days in Year 365 365 365 365 365
Yearly Volume (USD) 856,749,281,544 5,021,995,603,725 11,562,735,619,260 25,556,729,678,010 42,077,035,720,800
Transaction Fee % 0.45% 0.45% 0.45% 0.45% 0.45%
Transactions Fees (USD) 3,855,371,767 22,598,980,217 52,032,310,287 115,005,283,551 189,346,660,744
Commercial Centre Transactions
Share of Total Transactions (%) 0.5% 1.0% 2.0% 3.0% 3.0%
Share of Total Transactions ($) 4,283,746,408 50,219,956,037 231,254,712,385 766,701,890,340 1,262,311,071,624
Average Commission Rate 5% 5% 5% 5% 5%
Total Commission Income 214,187,320 2,510,997,802 11,562,735,619 38,335,094,517 63,115,553,581
KVT Share % 20% 20% 20% 20% 20%
KVT Transaction Revenue (USD) 771,074,353 4,519,796,043 10,406,462,057 23,001,056,710 37,869,332,149
KVT Commission Revenue (USD) 42,837,464 502,199,560 2,312,547,124 7,667,018,903 12,623,110,716
Projected KVT Revenue (USD) 813,911,817 5,021,995,604 12,719,009,181 30,668,075,614 50,492,442,865
KVT Issued 300,000 300,000 300,000 300,000 300,000
Per KVT 2,713.04 16,739.99 42,396.70 102,226.92 168,308.14
Cost per KVT 1000 1000 1000 1000 1000
Yield
NPV* (5% Discount rate)
271.30% 1674.00% 4239.67% 10222.69% 16830.81%
256,636.08

Below is from page 31 (Tether figures)

Jan 17, 2018 1.03 1.07 0.997739 1.01 5,588,840,000 1,671,280,000 334.40%

 

Looking at market cap in red, it shows an average market cap 4 x greater then Tethers. How is this justified? Having said that, the velocity value given (in blue) is 10x less for this day although average is somewhere between about 100 to 200% (ish). Given the large discrepancy on the velocity, is this recognition of what Martlet has said? 

Just to get this straight. On Jan 17 Tether had 1.67B USD in the bank (supposedly) and it got turned over 3.3x? That's A LOT of trading (buying and selling).

Is the Kinesis comparison saying I might have deposited say $50k and spend about $15k a year? If the system had 365 users this works out to a velocity of 30%

??

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23 minutes ago, passiveaggressive said:

Well done Martlet! Very good insight of the 627 holders. I like facts.

My understanding of what you just said.... KAU and KAG are touted as a means of moving fundsfor real world purposes. KAU / KAG transactions volumes are based on Tether transactions. However, Tether is only really being used in the crypto world by a few largeish players to buy and sell crypto - not sending money to ma and pa back home.

Thats about right.  The use of Tether and aims for KAU are quite different its not a good comparisons. 

2 minutes ago, mr1030 said:

The Tether comparison is made as Tether is probably the best known so called stable coin.  And your right that Tether is used mostly by crypto traders to get in an out of other crypto's  when their price plunges, and then trade back in on the rise.  Kinesis is aiming at that market (as well as others).  Given the choice, would someone who is temporarily exiting the bit coin market due to a down market rather hold their dollars in Tether, or Kinesis and receive a yield while doing so?  And now that the KAU and KAG can be bought with Tether directly they have made it easier to do so.  Can convert directly to Kinesis from bit coin or tether.

The relatively high transaction fee will restrict that market, and their exchange is unlikely to have the volume to attract serious BTC trading.  The idea of holding in KAU instead of Tether is a good, just unlikely to generate significant turnover.   The main problem for KAU is obtaining the $800bn in year one to reach the projection.  After a number of years, it might build up to that sort of size, but from here thats too far.

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29 minutes ago, mr1030 said:

The Tether comparison is made as Tether is probably the best known so called stable coin.  And your right that Tether is used mostly by crypto traders to get in an out of other crypto's  when their price plunges, and then trade back in on the rise.  Kinesis is aiming at that market (as well as others).  Given the choice, would someone who is temporarily exiting the bit coin market due to a down market rather hold their dollars in Tether, or Kinesis and receive a yield while doing so?  And now that the KAU and KAG can be bought with Tether directly they have made it easier to do so.  Can convert directly to Kinesis from bit coin or tether.

Yes! Kinesis can be used as a part of a trading platform/strategy in crypto's. i guess it can be used as well for trading stocks as a temporary safe haven but with the slight complication of having to convert in and out but I guess it's just keystrokes in another system to get it in (transfer from my bank to Kinesis and then I have to go to Kinesis and mint?).

It's opening my eyes to other uses (not just the way I think I would use it)!

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I would agree if the aim was just to go after the tether market.  What I find interesting is that their system can appeal to a wide variety of markets.  Stable coin that pays yield for crypto traders.  Fee-less bullion storage that earns yield for bullion banks, retirement funds, hedge funds or anyone that currently vaults their bullion for a monthly fee.  Banking via mobile for those without convenient banking in their area.  Preservation of buying power in those countries that have run away inflation or otherwise crappy currency.   The convertability via the debit card to local currency at point of sale makes it easy to use.  There are many different use cases that it could appeal to people.  Just like any new system, wide spread adoption would take time, but even if their velocity is a lot less then projected, the % yearly return on KVT purchase price should be good.  One of the Ambassador's on the community channel programmed a spread sheet to calculate KVT returns based on any velocity  % value you want to enter.  Even much lower velocity numbers gives nice returns.  The system as a whole can be hard to take in and comprehend in just one sitting.  I had to go back and look at the blue print and follow the questions that were raised in the Telegram channel for a while before I was able to appreciate just how big a system these guys were creating and the potential it has.

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47 minutes ago, passiveaggressive said:

Yes! Kinesis can be used as a part of a trading platform/strategy in crypto's. i guess it can be used as well for trading stocks as a temporary safe haven but with the slight complication of having to convert in and out but I guess it's just keystrokes in another system to get it in (transfer from my bank to Kinesis and then I have to go to Kinesis and mint?).

It's opening my eyes to other uses (not just the way I think I would use it)!

That's the spirit son one more posative question answered.

Keep them coming.👍.        I trust you checked the kinesis telegram site out.There are many professional people on there, from all professions faithfully  scrutinizing kinesis.money. 

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The spreadsheet is worth it’s weight in gold, pardon the pun. It’s a great tool to change velocities and also market penetration rates for various markets and to see the impact on kvt returns. 

I look forward to kinesis getting up and running. I don’t presume that velocities will be anything extravagant and have adjusted the sights accordingly, but I do see a bright future for the model. 

I tried to see the major negatives or failings of the project. Yes velocity is the key, but I’m happy even if kinesis only hits a very small percentage of some of the assumptions to begin with. As the classic commercial says, it won’t happen overnight but it will happen. 

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10 minutes ago, Hotnhigh said:

The spreadsheet is worth it’s weight in gold, pardon the pun. It’s a great tool to change velocities and also market penetration rates for various markets and to see the impact on kvt returns. 

I look forward to kinesis getting up and running. I don’t presume that velocities will be anything extravagant and have adjusted the sights accordingly, but I do see a bright future for the model. 

I tried to see the major negatives or failings of the project. Yes velocity is the key, but I’m happy even if kinesis only hits a very small percentage of some of the assumptions to begin with. As the classic commercial says, it won’t happen overnight but it will happen. 

Hi @Hotnhigh welcome to TSF. Very true👍

Edited by Groundup

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4 hours ago, Martlet said:

Thats about right.  The use of Tether and aims for KAU are quite different its not a good comparisons. 

The relatively high transaction fee will restrict that market, and their exchange is unlikely to have the volume to attract serious BTC trading.  The idea of holding in KAU instead of Tether is a good, just unlikely to generate significant turnover.   The main problem for KAU is obtaining the $800bn in year one to reach the projection.  After a number of years, it might build up to that sort of size, but from here thats too far.

What's the fee on Tether?

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3 hours ago, Groundup said:

That's the spirit son one more posative question answered.

Keep them coming.👍.        I trust you checked the kinesis telegram site out.There are many professional people on there, from all professions faithfully  scrutinizing kinesis.money. 

Yep

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9 hours ago, Martlet said:

Tether is funded by major exchange(s) depositing funds with a bank and creating an amount on the Bitcoin blockchain using something called Omni protocol, so in theory its backed (its been controversial as to whether it really is 100%).  The reason for comparison is because its traded an awful lot on exchanges for other crypto currency giving a high amount of turnover.  That being the correct term, its not velocity as there is no actual produce or service, as used to measure velocity of money.  It served a purpose to show the potential of KAU as money, however imo led to overselling the idea because its not going to be used to trade $'00 millions of cypto every day.  With only ~627 holders I dont believe there is enough traction for this to work as it stands, even using funds to buy and circulate KAU.

With $61k KVT sold in what I am thinking are fairly small lots, could it be the case that Kinesis already has more than 627 holders and therefore could be said to be 'bigger' than Tether already on this thin metric? The assumption is built in that the KVT holders will be actual users of the system, not purely just KVT speculators.

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Can someone please explain the tables on pg 33 of the blueprint by way of words and an example? Im thinking that to 'revolve' that $50k say 5 - 50! times a month is the province of high volume traders. I'm not understanding this correctly I'm sure. Thanks in advance.

 

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9 hours ago, passiveaggressive said:

Can someone please spell out the purpose of the wholesale currency? KWG and KWS? Is it just a beneficial price? ie ABX pick it up cheaper and pass through the savings or is there some actual function to it?

I think you are right.  A better price spread and it provides a more efficient means of transactions and storage for the big players.  Also from what I've read, KWG and KWS actually assign a specific numbered bar to the digital coin.  In the case of KAU and KAG, the currency grants you ownership of the equivalent weight in metal, but the currency isn't specifically attached to a specific bar.  

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9 hours ago, passiveaggressive said:

Can someone please explain the tables on pg 33 of the blueprint by way of words and an example? Im thinking that to 'revolve' that $50k say 5 - 50! times a month is the province of high volume traders. I'm not understanding this correctly I'm sure. Thanks in advance.

 

The idea of the cycles is that you repeatedly re-invest your capital in minting more coins.  Let's say I'm going to mint $5k worth of coins.  I qualify for the minters yield as soon as I spend the coins, send them to someone, or sell them to someone else on the exchange that wants the coins but doesn't want to or can't mint themselves.  In my case, I plan on selling them on the exchange.  As soon as I do so, I will use that $5k I receive from selling the coins to mint another $5k wotth of coins.  Sell those on the exchange, and repeat as quickly as I can.  Each cycle is adding more coins to the system, increasing market cap, and generating more fees as they circulate.  All happening with just an initial $5k on my part.  The limiting factor is how quickly can you off load the coins on to the market.  In the beginning, I have no idea how quickly that will be as the system isn't live yet.  But Kinesis is aiming for a global market.  I'm anticipating as we approach May, they will be increasing their advertising and marketing to get as much exposure as possible come launch.  As the system starts being used, the hope is that demand will grow and cycle durations to re-mint will shorten.

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7 hours ago, passiveaggressive said:

According to https://etherscan.io/token/0x3a859b9ea4998d344547283c7ce8ebc4abb77656

Kinesis now has 629 holders. That's positive!

When I first started looking into Kinesis, one difficult point I had was coming to the realization that KVT have to be looked at as separate from the rest of the system.  All KVT's are is a funding token to get Kinesis up and running.  Think of it as venture capital, and KVT's as stock.  Kinesis needed 15k KVT tokens sold to launch the system and they have sold roughly 61k so far.  We have been told that there are some big whales waiting to buy the rest of the tokens, but the founders of the company have held off doing so because they wanted as many individuals to buy KVT's as possible as they are then invested in the idea and would be it's biggest and most passionate promoters.  KVT ownership is not required to mint coins or participate in the system as a user.  So in that regard, it doesn't matter if there are 629 KVT owners, 5000, or 10 big whales buying all 300,000.  KVT owners are just investors in the company.

Edited by mr1030

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6 hours ago, mr1030 said:

When I first started looking into Kinesis, one difficult point I had was coming to the realization that KVT have to be looked at as separate from the rest of the system.  All KVT's are is a funding token to get Kinesis up and running.  Think of it as venture capital, and KVT's as stock.  Kinesis needed 15k KVT tokens sold to launch the system and they have sold roughly 61k so far.  We have been told that there are some big whales waiting to buy the rest of the tokens, but the founders of the company have held off doing so because they wanted as many individuals to buy KVT's as possible as they are then invested in the idea and would be it's biggest and most passionate promoters.  KVT ownership is not required to mint coins or participate in the system as a user.  So in that regard, it doesn't matter if there are 629 KVT owners, 5000, or 10 big whales buying all 300,000.  KVT owners are just investors in the company.

I understand, one doesn't beget the other. However you have to work with some numbers somewhere.

I don't know how Tether was funded so I'll take a stab and say most Tether holders aren't equity holders. This bodes well for Kinesis.

On the flip side surely Tether users know of this stable coin that has yields and actual auditing and the ability to buy into the actual system. Where are the nearly 3000 wanting to pick up KVTS?

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