PenguinUK

I once bought a tube of silver Britannia's from a forum member based in NI a few months ago. It was sent SD, got denied boarding on the flight from Belfast, then got sent by road to Glasgow for further security scans. Fortunately they didn't blow it up and it eventually arrived a week later. Royal Mail's explanation was that all parcels to London had to undergo additional screening and this parcel was classed as suspicious. I guess it must have looked like a pipe bomb on the x-ray😃

No issues at all. Posting to or from Northern Ireland to or from the 'mainland' is all the same. 
I regularly receive silver from England and regularly send to England, Wales and Scotland with the Royal mail. Its all the same. Special delivery sent across the water even arrives the next day before 1PM. 

The forum rules includes the following:
 
 
I have noticed a few listings recently in breach of this. As well as some listings getting around the rules listed about by using excessive punctuation instead e.g. "!!!!" or ***TEXT***

The issue with this, is that one member adds additional CAPITAL LETTERS, emojis, punctuation etc to grab extra unfair attention and soon some other members start doing the same but increase the amount of capital letters, emojis, punctuation etc in the titles, until the trade section eventually just ends up as one horrible mess and it becomes hard for buyers (include yourself reading this) to easily navigate through the items for sale on the forum.

This rule purely exists to keep the trade section a tidy place and functional for everyone.

Therefore I kindly ask that you follow the following:
Follow the above quoted forum rules on emojis and capital letters Choose Capitalised case if you want to make your text stand out; e.g. "Like This" rather than all uppercase "LIKE THIS" Limit punctuation such as asterisks to a maximum of 2 asterisks (one either side) e.g. *Like This* inside of ********Like This******** 


   
NOT inline with forum etiquette:

1OZ AMERICAN SILVER EAGLE ****PRICE LOWERED**** INCLUDES COA 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

Good use of title in line with forum etiquette:

1oz American Silver Eagle *Price Lowered* includes COA 🇺🇸


In some situations a word all in all upper case is perfectly OK, such examples mainly include abbreviations E.g. UK (as it is an abbreviation of United Kingdom) or COA as it is an abbreviation of Certificate of Authenticity. In general I would say to try to only use all uppercase for a word if it is an abbreviation of a word, otherwise use standard sentence case, or first letter of each word capitalised, e.g. Like this, or, Like This. 


Many thanks to the members who follow this and help to keep the TSF trade section a pleasant and easy place to browse.   

In August 2021 there were 625 trade listings started in the precious metals trade sections on the forum. Many thanks for these members who choose to buy and sell on The Silver Forum and once again thank you to those who help support TSF grow with Premium Membership. 

Dear all, first time poster, but I have been lurking around for a while.
In the life before Brexit, life was simple. You paid VAT at the going rate anywhere in the EU, and then brought the goods back in, possibly using the two stage delivery method if ordering from Estonia, or if you had them in person, no issues. Gold of course is VAT free everywhere and remains VAT free, but silver and platinum, have always had VAT added on, but this is where it gets interesting. I remember being offered some "second hand" britannias in London for the first time and saying "Why are they 10% more than the brand new ones?" and then discovering that they were VAT free, so for me, they were 10% cheaper. As my knowledge grew about the use of marginal schemes, I discovered that various countries had some very compelling marginal VAT schemes for second hand bullion, and I had much joy with goldsilver in Belgium (although note that some buyers had issues).
So I am the sort of person who believes "Tax Avoidance is fine, Tax Evasion is illegal, so don't do it" and I was looking to clarify how everything actually works post brexit with respect to importing. It's slightly more fun as my brother lives in Germany, so can collect and hold goods for me, but both of us have jobs where it would be very bad if we were found to be breaking the law, and we wouldn't want to either. The question is, just what is the law now? And this is where I have got to in getting to chapter and verse from HMRC ... and how they are avoiding answering my direct questions.
I have spent many hours on the phone to HMRC and written many versions of the email below. To date, I have not got a straight answer. The email below is one such example and that response took 6 weeks.
So here is the problem: Before Brexit, I could visit my brother in Germany, we would go to coin fairs and buy some interesting collectible coins in Silver and Platinum (Gold is not worth mentioning - it's VAT free - end of story). So the first place you need to go is to HMRC and discover the classification code for these items. Precious metal coins are covered by code 7118900000. There is no duty to pay, but it gets slightly interesting in that this states that the VAT rate is either 0% or 20%. Hmmm .... one of those I like, and one of those I don't.
So your next stage is to work out which rate applies and when and the advice page for the commodity is here https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/commodities/7118900000?country=FR&currency=EUR
That isn't much use, but it refers you to additional guidance here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rates-of-vat-on-different-goods-and-services#introduction
And there is no killer paragraph in it which says "UK silver/platinum bullion coins that are legal tender are subject to VAT at the rate of 0% or 20%"
However, the most relevant notice is probably https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-70149-finance/vat-notice-70149-finance which sits alongside the exceptional note on Gold Coins - so by inference (which is dangerous); Gold Coins are the exception and so Silver and Platinum coins would be covered by the rule.
In this impenetrable tome, section 2 reads “References to money in this notice include currency, bank notes and coins, in sterling or any other currency used as legal tender in a financial transaction, but not, with effect from 1 July 2006, platinum nobles.”
Now, this is really interesting because it explicitly excludes the Isle of Man's platinum noble, which then by inference would include a platinum/silver britannia . No further mention is made as to why the noble is excluded, but it's probably because in the IoM they were doing good business selling said coins VAT free and us main landers were splitting the difference with the local mint (who chipped into the IoM treasury for their rights to do this business and HMRC to exception). In section 2.6, it refers to a business buying and selling and the marginal scheme. However I am not a business, and do not actively buy or sell aside from collecting and so this does not apply. 
If they are classed as cash as section 2 implies, then I would not even have to declare them, but then some coins do have VAT on them. But if I as a buyer have paid VAT, either at 20% in most of Europe and the UK for new items, or at effectively 0% under the marginal scheme, would I be asked to pay again at the border, and if I purchased the item in the UK under the marginal scheme rules, in effect it is still VAT free even today (follow Chard's second hand bullion for the odd gem cropping up - and plenty of overpriced nonsense)
So I phoned HMRC and literally got passed around for 3 hours before they cut me off. It was interesting, I could not get a straight answer. Then I used the various email routes that are supposed to respond within 14 days, and in reality take 6-12 weeks. They also fobbed me off with a specific clear answer.
My question is: What happens if I buy new or second-hand silver and platinum coins in the EU and bring them back to the UK? 
Worst case: Buy a coin for £1,000 in Germany new, pay 20%, net outgoings, £1,200. Arrive at UK customs … “Ello ello, that’s a fine coin, I must add 20% VAT to it.”. I have now spent £1440 in total on something that would have cost me £1,200 in the UK. Clearly a poor proposition, especially if there is a fine for not declaring this – and the rules for this are also vague. Bad case: I could reclaim the 0% VAT paid on say a margin scheme in Belgium, but my revenue officer in Calais says "Hmm, nice coins, 20% VAT please" Best case: Buy a second hand coin in Belgium for £1,000 under the marginal scheme, I arrive at UK customs … “Ello ello, that’s a fine proof UK legal tender coin, no need to VAT, so on your way, and by the way, as it's legal tender and cash - you didn't even have to declare it to me.” Once COVID is done, I will drive to Berlin, and visit my brother. On the way back, I want to stop in Belgium and pick up in effect VAT free UK CGT exempt second hand platinum coins (and 2 bottles of wine and a bottle of JD). HMRC are however unable to tell me if I even need to make a declaration at the border (as if it is cash, I do not); and how to decide whether the 0% rate or 20% rate in their own guidance will apply.
To be honest, HMRC have very complex rules and you can’t be intuitive and hope. For example, I love that VAT on prawn crackers made from tapioca is applied at a 0% rate, and yet when they are made from potato starch, they are 20% rated. Unless of course you serve your prawn crackers hot, and in which case, they attract 20% regardless of whether they are tapioca or potato derived, but if you buy them fresh and hot, and they then are likely to go cold before eating at home or at another place, they are rated at 0%. With rules like that, how can anyone make sense of the impenetrable silver and platinum VAT guidance for people who are not in business (the business rules are actually quite clear).
So, I have a) written to HMRC's complaints department as they have not answered a very specific question and in effect referred me back to the generic advice that is ambiguous; and b) escalated to my MP, who I know quite well ... and wait for an answer.
I am not a betting man, but I think that HMRC's guidance as it stands will lead to a similar situation that applied when buying tobacco and wine pre-Brexit. Here, if you buy it at arms length and send it via a courier or use an agent then you get into a lot of trouble. However as second hand silver and platinum in both the UK and EU is covered by VAT under a marginal scheme where this is only on the profit, and the amount paid is hidden from you as a consumer, you are unable to make an reclaim of that from the EU, and if HMRC were to tax you, it should be on that basis - and I predict that "If I drive to Belgium, buy some silver/platinum, then bring it back myself, I don't have to declare it (HMRC cash rule); there is no VAT due (HMRC 0% rate applied on second hand item or marginal scheme applies) and finally, I will have to "not sell or distribute said coins to other people for a period of 12 months" as this is what happens when you are an expat and return to the UK with a bunch of second hand items you've acquired during your time overseas (Form TOR01) and relocate to the UK.
I think the answer is already in all of the HMRC guidance notes, but you have to use the exceptions to validate the rules, and the thought of banter with a customs office at 3AM with my wife and children in the car on the finer points of what is money, legal tender, commodity bullion and so on fills me with dread, and I am not the kind of person to be found on the wrong side of the law and smuggling.
Who wants me to post my answer when I get it? (I've been at this now for 12 weeks and I think I know how to eventually burst this bubble for once and for all - but if you read stuff on bulletin boards like this, I just see it as ideas for testing with the competent authorities as it is your reputation that is on the line, not this boards)

My first sovereigns
 

I feel extremely fortunate to have been Graced the opportunity to acquire this wonderful and iconic Sovereign.  
Thank you @SilverMike, @Elements & @Roy for the advice, help and support in making the investment.  


 

Yes, they are already on sale as "secondary market bullion -our choice" which we sell at a lower premium than "minty".
I didn't speak to the seller, but it is possible he received most of them like that, or he might have unpacked them to save space in a safe; we see all sorts of stuff like that.
Some years ago, we bought back a large quantity of sovereigns which we had previously supplied. Originally we had advised the investor to stick to secondary market our choice, which is our lowest priced category, and he did buy a lot of those, but also paid extra for one or two recent dates, in quantity, some in sheets. When we got the coins back, all were loose and scuffed. He had let the kids play with them!

I have a funny joke to tell which would nicely fit with your observation made today however, in the interest of where we are these days, I'll keep it to myself 😁 

I bought my very first piece of gold from ATS and a lot more after the first one, always had a good experience especially if you go there is person and you are lucky enough to be served by the young blonde lady, It was very hard for me to maintain eye contact with her as I was distracted by her incredibly large breasts 😅

You misunderstand me.   Of course we voted to come out of the EU and of course now that we're out of the EU we must apply UK tax rules to imports from abroad.
But what we did NOT vote for is the NEW tax rules which were introduced on Brexit day which include a change where foreign business must now register with and effectively act as an agent of HMRC, collecting tax on their behalf for any exports to the UK of BELOW £135 in value.
Small sales come from small businesses and it's clearly an incredibly onerous system to place the burden of UK tax collection onto the shoulders of small foreign businesses at point of sale.  Only a bureaucrat or someone deliberately trying to reduce small value sales imports could think this is a sensible idea (Hmmm, I wonder who might have insisted on this as part of the Brexit deal?).  Why should small businesses have to fill in this type of paperwork for a small sale to the UK when a large sale (above £135) will just be posted and assessed on arrival as per the standard international rules?  It's total madness and it affects all small sales from all across the world and has nothing to do with silver specifically.

My understanding is that any imports that have not been taxed at source will be taxed upon entry into the UK. 
This also covers any online sellers that do not use a marketplace to collect the VAT at source and any sellers/platforms that just don't bother. 
From reading somewhere on the HMRC blurb about it they say they will pursue persistent offenders that import into the UK as a business under the threshold that don't collect the VAT at source and force them to register for VAT. How HMRC feel they will have any legal jurisdiction to enforce this in every country on the planet is anybody's guess!

I too have used them in the past.
Another German company I used extensively and who was excellent before GS.be and the European Mint arrived on the scene is Aurinum and their website's front page first line states - 
 
NOTE: No Delivery to United Kingdom until further notice !
 

You will be charged 20% VAT on your order.  Either this should be collected by silbertresor and forwarded to HMRC (an onerous task) if your order is small or, if your order is large they theoretically might sell it to you minus German VAT and you will have your parcel assessed at UK customs or by the post office and will pay 20% VAT on it plus an £8 handling charge.  Charges are more at other couriers.
If small businesses fail to bother collecting tax on behalf of HMRC and just send it anyway this will result in some punitive measure for repeat offenders.  I fail to see what exactly other than confiscating items but they'd have to be opening every single package to know who the seller was.  Clearly, making a foreign seller of small value items open an account with the UK tax authorities and act as their agent has resulted in people all over the planet saying FU.
Its a monumental blunder by this government who should have told the EU where to stick it.  This is an EU designed wall to small businesses around the planet.  We don't need such a wall.

This isn't what we voted for.  The nonsense with the VAT is due to come into force in the EU anyway so we would still be subjecting the rest of the world to these kind of restrictions later this year even if we'd stayed in the EU.  We've simply implemented it slightly sooner than them when we could have ignored it.  It damages small sized business with the entire world and is completely retarded for us to be implementing.  

Even before Brexit I belive that you had to contact the owner to post to UK as UK was not one of the standard countries they use to ship to. You will find that most of the dealers in Germany, if not all will now not ship to the UK (not even consider it). I guess that is what we voted for as a sovereign and island nation.

Hi folks,
I don't know if this is useful information but just in case -
German coin company https://www.heubach-edelmetalle.de/ are no longer shipping to the U.K. (said in email). (perhaps due to changes since Brexit)
I had used them some years ago and they were very good.