HawkHybrid

I'm not buying PM to hedge against inflation, I believe there are better asset classes for that.  If you buy PM, make sure you buy for the right reasons.  For me, PM represents a diversification of investment risk.  If my asset portfolio drops in value, I may be able to rely on PM to even out the losses.  Also, having some physical PM helps me to prevent the debasement of fiat currency; as well, knowing that one day my PM can and will be able to put food on the table for my family or escape from my home country if the SHTF scenario (re: Lebanon, Turkey, Afghanistan, etc).   I'm definitely not buying PM to get rich, and therefore I don't care whether or not it hedges against inflation.   I buy PM to preserve my standard of living and/or pass it to the next generation when I pass away.

always someone who insists on calling it manipulation.
from 1980 until 2000 silver has dropped from ~$50/toz to ~$5/toz.
you don't need to know what the exact inflation rate was from 1980-2000.
all you need to know is that there wasn't a deflation of about -90%, to conclusively prove
that silver did not come anywhere near close to tracking inflation from 1980-2000.
 
HH

in fact gold failed to track inflation from 1980-2000($870/toz to $280/toz).
oil also failed to track inflation over the same period, ~$120/barrel to ~$40/barrel.
I'm not simply having a jab at silver as some on the forum like to think is true.
I merely point it out more often on silver because some people on the forum like to inappropriately defend silver
regardless of what is true.
 
HH

I'm thinking about stacking DrMartens 7 years ago £89 a pair today £169.  I'm seeing some YT pumpers tell people to buy silver because it will protect them from inflation, it's looking way off the mark.  Allowing for dealer premiums, vat PLUS real world inflation spot needs to increase  50% (to normally break somewhere close to even)+ 10% year on year to allow the stacker any chance at all to attempt to keep up with inflation and thats not allowing for delivery or other associated costs, the 50p for the capsule and few quid for postage will wipe out most peoples gains.   I'm not against silver or PM's people have their own reasons, it just makes me sick watching YouTubers  with 10,000's of followers giving them BS advice.  
There is always that day where if, but and maybe all align and silver goes to the moon, but that's not advise that's a lottery.  

always someone who insists on calling it manipulation.
from 1980 until 2000 silver has dropped from ~$50/toz to ~$5/toz.
you don't need to know what the exact inflation rate was from 1980-2000.
all you need to know is that there wasn't a deflation of about -90%, to conclusively prove
that silver did not come anywhere near close to tracking inflation from 1980-2000.
 
HH

if you treat gold(bullion sovereigns) as savings, and stocks and shares as investment then you
should be able to allocate funds to them accordingly.
 
HH

I can't believe people still fall for the 'silver miners opinion that the silver price is too low' charade.
how is it not glaringly obvious that silver miners(who's business is to sell you silver) will only ever
have a one sided view that silver is under priced?
when was the last time you told your boss that they are paying you too much for your labour?
how about each year when you tell them that you deserve a pay rise for the work that you do?
a gsr of below 20:1 is a gimmick that silver pumpers tell potential buyers of silver. it's a sales
tactic that means nothing. read up on it, it was centuries ago when silver was deemed valuable
enough to be valued at it's natural in ground ratio to gold. spoiler, miners 'will not' as opposed to
'can not' mine more than ~10 toz of silver for every toz of gold. reason, they simply can't find
enough buyers for the additional silver that is mined.
 
HH

the question should be if you believe silver is manipulated then why do you invest in it?
do you purposely go and gamble at a casino that is known to have rigged outcomes?
purposely play against cheats and get cheated of what should be your winnings?
or do you think you are so important that you will make everything right and get rich in the process?
 
who was buying silver when the wall street silver pumpers were shouting from every roof top of
how silver would go to the moon? not me.
there are plenty of real world practical reasons why people would still buy silver knowing that it
only tracks inflation long term.
these include
1. using it as a cheap entry inflation hedge.(as savings is especially useful for those inclined to spend every
penny that they currently hold, but they should convert it to gold once in a while for long term savings.)
2. buying it as the speculative part of a larger metals portfolio.
3. only buying it when it goes below it's long term average. (long term inflation tracker doesn't mean that it
accurately tracks inflation every second of every day. short term swings lasting over a decade is possible.)
 
all the people who are buying silver because they believe the world 'must' reset and make them filthy rich,
are conspiracy theorists who haven't thought it through. there are real life reasons to buy silver, but most
of the scenarios don't include 'silver as a get rich quick' scheme.
silver as an investment is not a get rich quick scheme.
 
HH 

the question should be if you believe silver is manipulated then why do you invest in it?
do you purposely go and gamble at a casino that is known to have rigged outcomes?
purposely play against cheats and get cheated of what should be your winnings?
or do you think you are so important that you will make everything right and get rich in the process?
 
who was buying silver when the wall street silver pumpers were shouting from every roof top of
how silver would go to the moon? not me.
there are plenty of real world practical reasons why people would still buy silver knowing that it
only tracks inflation long term.
these include
1. using it as a cheap entry inflation hedge.(as savings is especially useful for those inclined to spend every
penny that they currently hold, but they should convert it to gold once in a while for long term savings.)
2. buying it as the speculative part of a larger metals portfolio.
3. only buying it when it goes below it's long term average. (long term inflation tracker doesn't mean that it
accurately tracks inflation every second of every day. short term swings lasting over a decade is possible.)
 
all the people who are buying silver because they believe the world 'must' reset and make them filthy rich,
are conspiracy theorists who haven't thought it through. there are real life reasons to buy silver, but most
of the scenarios don't include 'silver as a get rich quick' scheme.
silver as an investment is not a get rich quick scheme.
 
HH 

a poor example that highlights nothing.
no one cares about the tiny pittance of silver that your computer has in it. they care about the big things like
industrial applications which account for ~50% of each years total demand.
https://www.silverinstitute.org/silver-supply-demand/
of which solar panels(photovoltaic) currently accounts for a 5th of that or ~10% of silver demand in recent years.
since 2012 traditional photography has reduced by about 25 million toz but jewellery has increased about 25
million toz.
since 2012 the total demand for silver has been flat overall but certain applications have shown to have
dwindled significantly.
 
HH

people always like to bring up the way inflation is/should be calculated and it is a moot point for
practical purposes.
I can effectively use a computer whilst not knowing how all of it's internals are calculated or works.
I just need to know enough about it to be able to use it.
same with investing in silver. I just need to know when the silver price is below it's long term average
in order to buy and above it for selling. charting programmes will offer you ema , sma, whatever moving
average for whatever time frame that you want. choose one that works for you and read off the number.
government inflation tracking indices are there for governments to 'prove to voters' how good they are
with inflation. these have nothing to do with the real world application of investing in silver. inflation is
notoriously difficult to track in our ever changing world. enabling a moving average on the silver chart is
a few clicks away, accurate to the data set and to the point. alternative you could waste all of your time
arguing why a government made up inflation measuring index is not actually measuring inflation accurately
and only serves to make the government look good(well duh, because making the government look good
is the sole purpose of it's existence?)
 
you just need to understand that long term inflation tracking means that short term(over a decade is possible)
inaccuracies is probable.
 
HH

the question should be if you believe silver is manipulated then why do you invest in it?
do you purposely go and gamble at a casino that is known to have rigged outcomes?
purposely play against cheats and get cheated of what should be your winnings?
or do you think you are so important that you will make everything right and get rich in the process?
 
who was buying silver when the wall street silver pumpers were shouting from every roof top of
how silver would go to the moon? not me.
there are plenty of real world practical reasons why people would still buy silver knowing that it
only tracks inflation long term.
these include
1. using it as a cheap entry inflation hedge.(as savings is especially useful for those inclined to spend every
penny that they currently hold, but they should convert it to gold once in a while for long term savings.)
2. buying it as the speculative part of a larger metals portfolio.
3. only buying it when it goes below it's long term average. (long term inflation tracker doesn't mean that it
accurately tracks inflation every second of every day. short term swings lasting over a decade is possible.)
 
all the people who are buying silver because they believe the world 'must' reset and make them filthy rich,
are conspiracy theorists who haven't thought it through. there are real life reasons to buy silver, but most
of the scenarios don't include 'silver as a get rich quick' scheme.
silver as an investment is not a get rich quick scheme.
 
HH 

the question should be if you believe silver is manipulated then why do you invest in it?
do you purposely go and gamble at a casino that is known to have rigged outcomes?
purposely play against cheats and get cheated of what should be your winnings?
or do you think you are so important that you will make everything right and get rich in the process?
 
who was buying silver when the wall street silver pumpers were shouting from every roof top of
how silver would go to the moon? not me.
there are plenty of real world practical reasons why people would still buy silver knowing that it
only tracks inflation long term.
these include
1. using it as a cheap entry inflation hedge.(as savings is especially useful for those inclined to spend every
penny that they currently hold, but they should convert it to gold once in a while for long term savings.)
2. buying it as the speculative part of a larger metals portfolio.
3. only buying it when it goes below it's long term average. (long term inflation tracker doesn't mean that it
accurately tracks inflation every second of every day. short term swings lasting over a decade is possible.)
 
all the people who are buying silver because they believe the world 'must' reset and make them filthy rich,
are conspiracy theorists who haven't thought it through. there are real life reasons to buy silver, but most
of the scenarios don't include 'silver as a get rich quick' scheme.
silver as an investment is not a get rich quick scheme.
 
HH 

the silver price is not being suppressed.
it's price is only rising long term in line with inflation as opposed to other commodities whose price exceeds inflation.
silver is falling out of favour. just as platinum has fallen out of favour in recent years versus gold. why would anyone
bet big on platinum if catalytic converters have an uncertain future? similarly why would anyone bet big on silver if
electronic power delivery, traditional photography, etc has an uncertain future? massive technological advances have
been made in computers, which reduces the need for silver, directly or indirectly. eg a solar panel powering a 45W
laptop is going to be physically bigger and need more silver than a much smaller solar panel that is required to power
a 25W laptop. over the generations, modern day 25W laptops are equal or more powerful/useful than the older 45W
laptops that they replace.
 
HH

I can't believe people still fall for the 'silver miners opinion that the silver price is too low' charade.
how is it not glaringly obvious that silver miners(who's business is to sell you silver) will only ever
have a one sided view that silver is under priced?
when was the last time you told your boss that they are paying you too much for your labour?
how about each year when you tell them that you deserve a pay rise for the work that you do?
a gsr of below 20:1 is a gimmick that silver pumpers tell potential buyers of silver. it's a sales
tactic that means nothing. read up on it, it was centuries ago when silver was deemed valuable
enough to be valued at it's natural in ground ratio to gold. spoiler, miners 'will not' as opposed to
'can not' mine more than ~10 toz of silver for every toz of gold. reason, they simply can't find
enough buyers for the additional silver that is mined.
 
HH

the silver price is not being suppressed.
it's price is only rising long term in line with inflation as opposed to other commodities whose price exceeds inflation.
silver is falling out of favour. just as platinum has fallen out of favour in recent years versus gold. why would anyone
bet big on platinum if catalytic converters have an uncertain future? similarly why would anyone bet big on silver if
electronic power delivery, traditional photography, etc has an uncertain future? massive technological advances have
been made in computers, which reduces the need for silver, directly or indirectly. eg a solar panel powering a 45W
laptop is going to be physically bigger and need more silver than a much smaller solar panel that is required to power
a 25W laptop. over the generations, modern day 25W laptops are equal or more powerful/useful than the older 45W
laptops that they replace.
 
HH

I can't believe people still fall for the 'silver miners opinion that the silver price is too low' charade.
how is it not glaringly obvious that silver miners(who's business is to sell you silver) will only ever
have a one sided view that silver is under priced?
when was the last time you told your boss that they are paying you too much for your labour?
how about each year when you tell them that you deserve a pay rise for the work that you do?
a gsr of below 20:1 is a gimmick that silver pumpers tell potential buyers of silver. it's a sales
tactic that means nothing. read up on it, it was centuries ago when silver was deemed valuable
enough to be valued at it's natural in ground ratio to gold. spoiler, miners 'will not' as opposed to
'can not' mine more than ~10 toz of silver for every toz of gold. reason, they simply can't find
enough buyers for the additional silver that is mined.
 
HH

People who still believe there is a silver shortage are dreamers. I can buy at every shop as much silver as I could ever own in my lifetime with no waiting periods.
Just search the amount of silver that was mined this year already, more than 800 000 000 ounces.
Supply chain issues are something that every branch has, in the company I work we are having supply chain delays of 3-6 months ...

wild guess sestertius, head facing right
possibly something like this
https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/marc_breitsprecher_classical_numismatist/8/product/hadrian_ad_117138_198_sestertius__hadrian_raising_hispania/1191392/Default.aspx
 
HH

how can you compare market exchange prices with retail prices?
what would be useful is knowing that the retails price is rumoured to have hit ~$43-47 when the
silver price hit $48 in 2011. how much are american retail prices today? apmex price ~$35(not sure
about taxes).
even if retail prices are close to what they were in 2011 how much of it is premium?(current spot price
~$28)
of course the easy comparison would be to compare both spot prices $28(today) versus $48(2011 peak)
and say that it has lost ~40%.
higher premiums is the result of a broken silver squeeze. (because there are no shorters being squeezed.
if comex had shorters being squeezed it would reflect equally in the comex price for silver)
 
I never said that you said that dealers are ripping people off. I was hinting that you should re-read
@LawrenceChard post about not believing the hype. (I purposely chose chards as the example of a
dealer) 
it's because it's a silver forum that people should not be lied to, mislead and tricked into believing something
that simply isn't true about silver. I don't upset people who are actually into silver when I say that silver
can make you money(timed correctly) but don't listen to the hype about prices shooting to the moon. I only
upset the fanatics and those who have a self interest to mislead people to over pay for their silver.
 
HH

I don't look at it as Crypto vs Gold, I think it's better as Crypto and Gold.
Then the individual decides on their risk appetite and puts both into their portfolio in a % according to that risk appetite.
As long as the bulk of your fiat is tied into whatever you believe in, go for it, you could also include cars in the mix, some of those have grown in value nicely, heck I've even got a 1956 jukebox in our hallway I bought for £120 over 40 years ago - it's all about assets you can both enjoy and, with luck, seeing an increase in value is a great bonus. 

Ignoring leverage is correct. They are comparing the amount YOU invested and don't include any amount borrowed to invest. You can gear any investment not just property by means of loans, use of spread-bets etc. The only sensible way is to treat them equal  and ignore all forms of gearing in the comparison. 

One of those toss pots who went intending to cause problems.   Should be charged with wasting police time also.   

There's no precious metal play here, unless want to count rare earths. 

@swanky is correct, your maths(logic) is wrong.
the fact that it was 24g silver for each $1 coin has nothing to do with the depreciation of the dollar.
(does it make a difference if it was 24g = ~370 grains of silver? ie would it now be 370 grains divide by $0.04 ?)
the maths should be: $1(original coin value) divide by $0.04(current coin value) = 25
ie the paper $1 has depreciated by a multiple of 25, so it takes 25 current $1 to equal an old $1.
thus valuing an old $1 to be $25(current dollars) not $600(current dollars).
(what a huge surprise that when you do the maths correctly, $25 per 24g is not that far off from the current
spot price of $23/toz.)
 
the above is for clarification as it's all a moot point, as the analysis is next to irrelevant to the value of silver.
as I've pointed out it before if you replaced 'silver' with bread in your analysis, all of the dollar depreciation
analysis will be just the same and equally representative. dollar depreciation is not a silver specific thing,
it's a dollar specific thing and affects all items denominated in dollars.
 
HH