200 Anniversary "Strike on the day" Sovereign

[Paul]

The COA for my SOTD received today from Chard is #206 

[ChardsCoinandBullionDealer]

2 hours ago, Paul said:

Well after my six week wait, my SOTD has arrived and it is also damaged like others here kman and whitesands  

Knowing there were minting issues with the coin & returns already noted on the forum here, i'm surprised they weren't inspected for damage prior to dispatch by Chard which is a great shame.

Regardless how good customer service is or the ability to send things back, when Royal Mint  cant get the core product of the sovereign right in the first place why bother minting & sending it at all. Royal Mint internal quality control is abysmal   

I have paid over £2,000oz for a not perfect damaged sovereign with a nice fancy box and corrected COA to house it in

The Royal Mint  have lost a customer for good now, I will be happy to buy their product in the secondary market as close to spot as i can. Their new issue coins forget it

I wont be returning to Chard.  Hopefully the value will long term will be retained on this limited issue coin.

 

2 hours ago, Paul said:

Well after my six week wait, my SOTD has arrived and it is also damaged like others here kman and whitesands  

Knowing there were minting issues with the coin & returns already noted on the forum here, i'm surprised they weren't inspected for damage prior to dispatch by Chard which is a great shame.

Regardless how good customer service is or the ability to send things back, when Royal Mint  cant get the core product of the sovereign right in the first place why bother minting & sending it at all. Royal Mint internal quality control is abysmal   

I have paid over £2,000oz for a not perfect damaged sovereign with a nice fancy box and corrected COA to house it in

The Royal Mint  have lost a customer for good now, I will be happy to buy their product in the secondary market as close to spot as i can. Their new issue coins forget it

I wont be returning to Chard.  Hopefully the value will long term will be retained on this limited issue coin.

Hi Paul,
I'm sorry that you have been disappointed with your coin. I can see that some of the checking at our end has been rushed through and some damaged coins have been missed in our haste to dispatch all the SotD sovereigns that everyone had been waiting for. If you would like to send this coin back to us I can either send you a replacement or offer you a refund, whichever you prefer.
I have personally examined all our stock which have then been double checked by a senior colleague. Unfortunately approx a third of the coins show various signs of production marks including tiny dents, some hairline scratches and a couple of coins appear to have die-cracks - I will ask Lawrence to confirm this but he is out of the office this week.
In our opinion, the proof-like brilliant uncirculated finish has caused a great deal of confusion. The coins have certainly not been struck to a proof finish which is evident when compared side by side with the 2017 proof sovereign. It would have been a better idea if the Royal Mint had kept to their standard BU finish. We are awaiting to hear whether we will be able to get more replacement coins, as soon as we get some more information we will let you know.
Please let me know what you would like to do.
Kind regards,
Lizzie

[Paul]

44 minutes ago, ChardLizzie said:

Hi Paul,
I'm sorry that you have been disappointed with your coin. I can see that some of the checking at our end has been rushed through and some damaged coins have been missed in our haste to dispatch all the SotD sovereigns that everyone had been waiting for. If you would like to send this coin back to us I can either send you a replacement or offer you a refund, whichever you prefer.
I have personally examined all our stock which have then been double checked by a senior colleague. Unfortunately approx a third of the coins show various signs of production marks including tiny dents, some hairline scratches and a couple of coins appear to have die-cracks - I will ask Lawrence to confirm this but he is out of the office this week.
In our opinion, the proof-like brilliant uncirculated finish has caused a great deal of confusion. The coins have certainly not been struck to a proof finish which is evident when compared side by side with the 2017 proof sovereign. It would have been a better idea if the Royal Mint had kept to their standard BU finish. We are awaiting to hear whether we will be able to get more replacement coins, as soon as we get some more information we will let you know.
Please let me know what you would like to do.
Kind regards,
Lizzie

Thanks for you for the explanations and refund offers.  

I just intend on keeping the SOFD sovereign.    Hassles to return, return costs at my own expense, may receive another damaged coin in return, the credit card bill has already been paid so any refund will put my account in credit. 

It is only the tiniest of marks, it looks much worse at x10 loupe magnification, than at x1 magnification human eye where is is hardly even visible to see 

Once the dust has settled 10-20 years down the line when none are available in the aftermarket, the mark hopefully wont be an issue and rarity/low mintage/value will prevail with a profit

It is what it is, the fault is Royal Mint not yours.  With the advancement of online forums like this and sharing of experiences, the Royal Mint is on a slippery slope to loosing its base core of  collectors with these all too common minting issues, quality issues, incorrect COAs, returns issues, poor packing.  Royal Mint can keep any new offerings and their super high price they ask for them. I am done with Royal Mint well and truly.  My gold cash will be spent anywhere but them. 

Thanks for your efforts @ChardLizzie and speedy attempts to resolve amicably in public 

  

[Roy]

The Sovereign: Flagship coin of the Royal Mint 

 

[augur]

1 hour ago, ChardLizzie said:

Unfortunately approx a third of the coins show various signs of production marks including tiny dents, some hairline scratches and a couple of coins appear to have die-cracks - I will ask Lawrence to confirm this but he is out of the office this week.

That is the most shocking part but matches with my experience of my proof coin orders this year. It's good to know that I am not going crazy on quality but RM needs to get their act together!

[sovereignsteve]

6 hours ago, Roy said:

The Sovereign: Flagship coin of the Royal Mint 

 

It isn't actually a sovereign, strictly speaking

[Kman]

5 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

It isn't actually a sovereign, strictly speaking

Do you think the sovereigns produced by PAMP in India are sovereigns? since they're third party 

[sovereignsteve]

23 minutes ago, Kman said:

Do you think the sovereigns produced by PAMP in India are sovereigns? since they're third party 

I would think so as they are minted under license to exact mint specifications and are identical (except for the mintmark) to those produced by the RM.

[Kman]

Just now, sovereignsteve said:

I would think so as they are minted under license to exact mint specifications and are identical (except for the mintmark) to those produced by the RM.

Just been thinking about that last couple days, thought you were a good person to ask

You've been MIA last few days it feels like, been away? 

[Guest]

Do you think the sovereigns produced by PAMP in India are sovereigns? since they're third party 

It's a Sovereign if the Royal Mint say it's a Sovereign. It's now a brand and the India Sovereign is a Sovereign )) as much as the Piedfort is a Sovereign

[Jester]

40 minutes ago, Kman said:

Do you think the sovereigns produced by PAMP in India are sovereigns? since they're third party 

It's just as much a Sovereign as when they were minted in Bombay in '18, Ottawa from '08 - '19 and Pretoria from '23 - '32 no?  Couldn't you consider those Mints "third-party" as they weren't produced in London?

[Kman]

17 minutes ago, Jester said:

It's just as much a Sovereign as when they were minted in Bombay in '18, Ottawa from '08 - '19 and Pretoria from '23 - '32 no?  Couldn't you consider those Mints "third-party" as they weren't produced in London?

But I assumed they were produced by Royal Mint employees in Royal Mint facility, or is that not the case?

 

[sovereignsteve]

24 minutes ago, Numistacker said:

It's a Sovereign if the Royal Mint say it's a Sovereign

Not strictly true as the definition, face value and specifications are decreed by leglislation not by the whim of someone at the mint

[Guest]

@sovereignsteve tell that to the RM marketing department. I think the India Sovereign is more of a sovereign than the Piedfort that's the wrong weight.

Is an Australian Sovereign British or Australian?

[Jester]

That's a great question @Kman...I was thinking about that as I typed my reply.  Did the British Empire actually construct the Mint facilities in those commonwealth countries and import citizens in to run them?  If so then I would say, no, definitely not third-party.

[sovereignsteve]

20 minutes ago, Jester said:

It's just as much a Sovereign as when they were minted in Bombay in '18, Ottawa from '08 - '19 and Pretoria from '23 - '32 no?  Couldn't you consider those Mints "third-party" as they weren't produced in London?

It's an interesting question though as MMTC-PAMP call them a "commemorative" coin and also refer to the 1918 issue likewise. If you read their blurb it seems to suggest that all modern day sovereigns are "commemorative". Is this correct? Could this be because they are no longer strictly speaking a circulating coin, losing that status when we came off the gold standard? Are all sovereigns since 1957 merely bullion commemorative gold coins?

[Jester]

Speaking of 1957...

I need a 1957 and 1959 in high grade condition before the Queen passes.  Don't you think there will be a bump in QEII Sovs shortly after she dies?  I hate to speak of someone like that but it is a question that's been on my mind.  Unfortunately, they're harder to find in high grade than a black cat in a coal cellar (in the U.S. that is)...

[sovereignsteve]

6 minutes ago, Numistacker said:

@sovereignsteve tell that to the RM marketing department.

I'm sure they can do pretty well what they want, no one is going to take them to task.

 

7 minutes ago, Numistacker said:

I think the India Sovereign is more of a sovereign than the Piedfort that's the wrong weight.

I agree entirely

8 minutes ago, Numistacker said:

Is an Australian Sovereign British or Australian?

A very good question.

If you mean the currently produced Perth mint sovs, I've absolutely no idea, haven't been bothered to check them out at all. I'm sure they will be the correct spec but does it matter, they are simply commemorative coins anyway.

If you mean the 19th and 20th century aussie sovs; the first Sydney coins were produced "unofficially" and then "semi-officially" using dies produced by the British mint but weren't legal tender anywhere except Aus. The branch mints were then set up by officials from the RM and produced coins that were legal tender in GB as well as Aus, effectively that meant the whole world!

[Kman]

9 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

Are all sovereigns since 1957 merely bullion commemorative gold coins?

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00002633062

The Royal Mint wanted a trademark for "Sovereign" under gold commemorative coins 

Got opposed 

[sovereignsteve]

6 minutes ago, Jester said:

Speaking of 1957...

I need a 1957 and 1959 in high grade condition before the Queen passes.  Don't you think there will be a bump in QEII Sovs shortly after she dies?  I hate to speak of someone like that but it is a question that's been on my mind.  Unfortunately, they're harder to find in high grade than a black cat in a coal cellar (in the U.S. that is)...

They're relatively easy to find in high grade over here. Well, depends what you mean by high grade

[Kman]

4 minutes ago, shortstack68 said:

The India sovereign is more of a Sovereign than the strike on the day plain edge medal, have we seen plain edge in modern times, have we seen a piedfort in modern times, so what's you theory, i'm up for a debate.......

oh god, back to that  

[sovereignsteve]

3 minutes ago, shortstack68 said:

i'm up for a debate...

we seemed to have hijacked this thread, maybe we should adjurn to "sovereign talk"?

[sovereignsteve]

57 minutes ago, Kman said:

You've been MIA last few days it feels like, been away? 

No, not at all. Been pretty busy doing other things but have been keeping up to date here. Just haven't seen many threads that have grabbed me

[Jester]

9 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

They're relatively easy to find in high grade over here. Well, depends what you mean by high grade

I'm really happy to buy and own Sovs in MS63/64 condition.  So far, my 1918's are MS63 and I'm thrilled with them...but maybe that's not high grade 

[sovereignsteve]

1 minute ago, Jester said:

I'm really happy to buy and own Sovs in MS63/64 condition.  So far, my 1918's are MS63 and I'm thrilled with them...but maybe that's not high grade 

No those grades are fine imo but you can get higher.