How do you verify Gold and Silver when out and about?

[BackyardBullion]

So, today I was at a flea market in Abergavenny (wales) and I came across a stall selling some old silver crowns and as I have seen lots of these before I was 99.99% confident they were real and genuine.

I feel pretty confident identifying old and new silver by touch, look and experience of working with silver and handling my own 999 and old silver coins. I decided not to buy any in the end - not because I thought they weren't real but because I got distracted by his collection of sovereigns...

He had a whole range from 1860's to 1900's including some shieldbacks. He wanted £250 for regulars and £270 for the shieldbacks. Now these were in AMAZING condition and @Numistacker would have loved it - lots of grading possibilities! Regardless of potential grading for their condition they were great prices indeed.

But...how do you know and/or test at a flea market stall! I asked if he had scales and he did, they all felt genuine to the touch and weighed the right ammount 7.9g - 8g (his scales were only accurate to 1 decimal point).

I chickened out of any purchases, fighting the urge for a great deal...it was the sage advice of "Mrs Backyard Bullion" who said, "unless you are 1000% sure you should be careful, afterall we are in a flea market!"

So how do you get to the 1000% certainty when not in a coin dealers shop? Is it experience? Could I have done anything more?

I was thinking a set of digital calipers would be a great way to verify a coin on the go. Also bringing your own set of accurate and correctly calibrated scales would help. A neodymium earth magnet too for silver but Gold seems like another kettle of fish! 

Would you have bought today based on look, feel and correct weight?

Your thoughts are more than welcome!

 

[Clens92]

I keep a small neodymium magnet in my wallet, and if I'm going coin hunting I will take scales and a caliper.  But those can only give you so much assurance - if it looks right, and it feels right... sometimes you have to back your own judgement.

Also a smartphone... a quick google search will tell me if there are any known forgeries in existence. 

[Paul]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1oz-Silver-Eagle-Britannia-Maple-Leaf-half-Full-Gold-Sovereign-Coin-Testing-Kit/331789671252?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40656%26meid%3De85175a5e9b540f88e08b73ff9dd03a5%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D7%26sd%3D291695083113

One of these in your wallet may help you out - credit card sized.  

Gets your diameter and thickness. Add a set of scales and lastly your own judgement/opinion

 

[Roy]

Thank god for Mrs BYB! 

I've never bought at a market but scales and calipers are first defence.

Experience is awesome....all Lawrence needs is a loupe!

and +1 for Paul's suggestion.

 

[Paul]

I also remember this app from a few years back but didn't purchase it .  It uses the unique acoustic sound pattern a particular coin will make

http://www.cointrustapp.com/en/index.php

 

[BackyardBullion]

I think it comes down to experience even if you have all the kit!

22 minutes ago, Roy said:

Thank god for Mrs BB! 

I've never bought at a market but scales and calipers are first defence.

Experience is awesome....all Lawrence needs is a loupe!

and +1 for Paul's suggestion.

 

Mrs BYB is a godsend that is in no doubt!

26 minutes ago, Paul said:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1oz-Silver-Eagle-Britannia-Maple-Leaf-half-Full-Gold-Sovereign-Coin-Testing-Kit/331789671252?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40656%26meid%3De85175a5e9b540f88e08b73ff9dd03a5%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D7%26sd%3D291695083113

One of these in your wallet may help you out - credit card sized.  

Gets your diameter and thickness. Add a set of scales and lastly your own judgement/opinion

 

I saw a video on these and they were the wrong size! But I guess if you get a good quality one it could be a great tool!

Problem with calipers is you need to look up the spec's of the coins as you go.

[sovereignsteve]

14 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

I think it comes down to experience even if you have all the kit!

Mrs BYB is a godsend that is in no doubt!

I saw a video on these and they were the wrong size! But I guess if you get a good quality one it could be a great tool!

Problem with calipers is you need to look up the spec's of the coins as you go.

I've got one very similar to this and it works perfectly with sovereigns full and half. Not sure about any other coins.

[sovereignsteve]

40 minutes ago, Roy said:

Experience is awesome....all Lawrence needs is a loupe!

 

Trust me, there are fakes out there that are not so straightforward.

[BackyardBullion]

34 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

I've got one very similar to this and it works perfectly with sovereigns full and half. Not sure about any other coins.

Good to know - thanks!

[Pete]

I wouldn't risk buying off a flea market because you may never find the seller again should you get home and discover you have been sold a dud.

However, if this is a regular market trader who has lots of coins and perhaps buys gold etc then what I would be tempted to do is (a) carry my own scales and (b) have a genuine coin in my pocket for size comparison. If the weight is good and the size is good then the coin is unlikely to be a fake. It is hard to believe but many people cannot tell the difference between a half sovereign and a full sovereign unless they have both to compare or have experience handling both.

[BackyardBullion]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

I wouldn't risk buying off a flea market because you may never find the seller again should you get home and discover you have been sold a dud.

However, if this is a regular market trader who has lots of coins and perhaps buys gold etc then what I would be tempted to do is (a) carry my own scales and (b) have a genuine coin in my pocket for size comparison. If the weight is good and the size is good then the coin is unlikely to be a fake. It is hard to believe but many people cannot tell the difference between a half sovereign and a full sovereign unless they have both to compare or have experience handling both.

Great advice - I think as I am on Holiday and likely to never see that trader again it was the right choice to pass!

[sovereignsteve]

2 hours ago, BackyardBullion said:

Great advice - I think as I am on Holiday and likely to never see that trader again it was the right choice to pass!

Nice coins though. £270 for "amazing condition" shields. A pity not to be able to avail one's self

[MCJ]

Ask if the trader would mind if you took a few pictures of him, if he starts to get agitated, walk away.

[Clens92]

20 minutes ago, MCJ said:

Ask if the trader would mind if you took a few pictures of him, if he starts to get agitated, walk away.

Sorry, but that's hardly a fair way of telling if gold is real.

I sell face to face sometimes, and if someone wanted to take pictures of me there would be no deal - and I would never deal with them again.  Some people value their personal privacy and security more than a sale.

[BackyardBullion]

32 minutes ago, Clens92 said:

Sorry, but that's hardly a fair way of telling if gold is real.

I sell face to face sometimes, and if someone wanted to take pictures of me there would be no deal - and I would never deal with them again.  Some people value their personal privacy and security more than a sale.

I would have to agree with you here. Photos of the coins perhaps, if he gets funny then that is a sign!

Also I guess if you get out some of your own scales, measures and calipers and he got funny that is a tell tale sign!

Asking for his credentials and business card or contact information seems a legit thing to ask too which might provide warning signs.

[GoldBenj]

You could always whip out an XRF gun and I bet that would put the cats amongst the pigeons.

[Paul]

30 minutes ago, GoldBenj said:

You could always whip out an XRF gun and I bet that would put the cats amongst the pigeons.

Doubly so if you left the price tag attached !  

[BackyardBullion]

3 hours ago, Paul said:

Doubly so if you left the price tag attached !  

After spending X000's on an XRF gun testing £20 silver coins seems fruitless! 

[MCJ]

10 hours ago, Clens92 said:

Sorry, but that's hardly a fair way of telling if gold is real.

I sell face to face sometimes, and if someone wanted to take pictures of me there would be no deal - and I would never deal with them again.  Some people value their personal privacy and security more than a sale.

No need to be sorry, just taking a chaps picture after all. If he doesn't mind, all good, if he does the coins could be iffy in some way.

[SilverSniper]

On 3/29/2017 at 16:46, Clens92 said:

I keep a small neodymium magnet in my wallet, and if I'm going coin hunting I will take scales and a caliper.  But those can only give you so much assurance - if it looks right, and it feels right... sometimes you have to back your own judgement.

Also a smartphone... a quick google search will tell me if there are any known forgeries in existence. 

 

In your wallet?  That won't do the magnetic strips on your credit/debit cards any good 

[Clens92]

33 minutes ago, SilverSniper said:

In your wallet?  That won't do the magnetic strips on your credit/debit cards any good 

Hasn't had any impact so far - carried it for about a year.