new to silver stacking. help please?

[KeenoStakz]

hello everyone,

new to the forum and collecting precious metal. in fact I will be making my first purchase this week. I have come to this decision after watching my grandparents pump money into life insurance and private pensions only to be ripped off by the biggest crooks in the uk....the government. they lost so much money to fees and taxes when collecting their pensions and life insurance, they worked hard all their lives and paid taxes, only to pay more taxes on the money they put into their retirement. rant over!

 

here in the uk I find it very hard to trust the government or banks especially when it comes to my retirement and money for my kids as they get older. so the idea of a nice pile of precious metals that the government know nothing about is a nice one. another reason is that im a nightmare when it comes to saving, with 2 kids and another on the way and my obsession with fishing any spare cash laying around seems to get spent. I have come up with a buying plan that will slowly but surely grow.

 

I have spent the last month trawling through you tube and various forums trying to learn as much as I can about buying precious metals. I do not have massive spending capabilities so I have decided to start with silver. in the uk I have to pay the dreaded vat, this worried me at first, but after looking at the resale price of silver I have noticed that private sellers are selling very close to what big companies are charging with vat.

 

I have a few questions ask.

 

I am very confused on what to buy. to me it makes sense to get as much silver as you can for your hard earned cash. by looking at the prices of silver bars are better value than coins for overall weight. but I see so many silver stackers with coins. I understand that some coins will have higher premium in years to come, but some wont.

 

is this just a gamble?

 

I can see the point in buying beautiful coins, but im sure most people buying silver are doing for the same reason as me, saving for retirement or a rainy day, so surely bars are better.

 

am I missing something?

 

also, obviously the bigger you buy the more you get. if you buy a 1 gram bar of gold for £30, it works out a stupid amount more per kilo. but I am wrong in thinking that is the wrong way of looking at it. if buying loads of smaller amounts you are obviously paying more for an ounce than just buying 1 ounce in a lump. but that is not the point because if you sell them all in small amounts you should get the same margin (depending on the spot point of course) back. if the price in gold jumps up 4% then in theary the price of both the 1 gram and 1 ounce should go up by 4%.

 

any help on this?

 

and finally, the spot price for silver is £11.58 per ounce. I have seen numerous youtube videos stating that you should buy as close to spoty as you can (doesn't take a genius to realise that, lol). but I have searched numerous large companies and ebay and all the silver coins and bars that are a ounce in weight are around the £20 mark, I know this includes the vat. is that the normal up for buying small quantities?

 

sorry for the long ass intro. but this is a big decision for me. also I apoligise if some of the above is a confusing read but im very confused lol.

 

thanks for any help.

 

keeno.

[silversword]

Welcome Keeno

 

We are all here because we either collect coins, believe in silver/gold as investments, or in many cases a bit of both. If you are buying with VAT, and all other factors are equal, bars will get you more silver for your money, but you need to be prepared to buy bigger investment bars, like 500g or upward, to start seeing a benefit.They are good if you are simply investing in silver and expecting the price to rise in future. The "premium" (the cost of production and packaging added on above the spot value) on smaller bars like 1oz and 100g sizes, makes them an inefficient way to stack which is why I recommend larger ones. Buying as close to spot is generally the way to go with bars.

 

Coins benefit from their collectable (numismatic) value, so although they are slightly more expensive per ounce, they have more chance to appreciate in price because some varieties may be considered rare or desirable and can sell for much more than the value of the metal they contain. Another advantage is that UK legal tender coins like the silver Britannia are exempt from Capital Gains Tax when you sell them, which is worth considering if you forsee yourself with a big stack to be sold off. A further advantage of coins is that if ordering from some EU sources, you can get them VAT-free, which can actually end up with the coins being cheaper per ounce than big investment bars.

 

Coins always have a premium associated with them because they cost more to produce than a simple bar, then the dealer must make their margin, plus there will always be delivery costs to be added on, or factored in to the price (there is no such thing as truly "free" delivery when it's coming next-day with insurance), and then some VAT on top of that, so to buy a single 1oz coin in the UK, yes, you are looking at around £20-ish based on todays spot prices. If a single coin is all you want, then thats fine, but it works out cheaper to buy more, as you will get better "per-coin" prices buying 5 or more. You will often see £/oz mentioned on here for good reason.

 

One final thought: When it comes to gold, be aware that though the small "bars" are quite affordable, 1, 2, or 2.5g of gold is not much to look at, and when selling back to a dealer you are unlikely to recoup the premium on them. 

[Pete]

Keeno,

 

Sounds as if you need some financial advice !

 

Everyone has different personal views and attitude to risk, pensions, savings etc.

Many on this forum collect PMs more as a hobby than as an investment.

Some people on other forums are doomsday nutters so you really need to decide where you are heading and with a young family you need to play safe unless you are a high earner with cash to burn.

 

If you wish to dabble in PMs then keep your investment below 10% of your other assets.

If you have secure provisions elsewhere then risk more but be aware that if you ever are forced to sell you might wish you had stayed clear of commodities like PMs that fluctuate in value both by world events and more likely market manipulation.

 

For example, if you had bought silver a couple of years ago, when every stacker was very optimistic about the future, you would now show a 50% loss and if you had to convert to cash today this would truly hurt. Okay silver might appear cheap now but there is no guarantee that it will not fall further whereas you will never loose money buying premium bonds other than inflation which is actually very low.

 

As a start look at the lowest premium silver coins like Maples, Philharmonics etc.  Fine silver is priced at spot plus a margin and if selling back then it is generally the weight rather than the coin that sets the price so why buy premium coins at much higher prices ? You will find many coins that are bought and sold at higher prices but always factor in selling costs to work out any gain. Many coins are nice to own but then are you planning to be a collector or a stacker and can you afford to be either ?

 

I am sure if you ask specific questions there will be experienced people here to make suggestions / recommendations.

[KeenoStakz]

thank you silversword.

great advice. I will look into buying bigger bars. but I think I will do the coins to. it sounds as if they both have there advantages, buying from Germany never occurred to me, could you recommend any sellers?

 

thanks pete.

im certainly no dooms day nutter. I think I would come under both the collector and investor which I understand isn't perfect. I have never looked into pm`s before and have stopped myself from rushing in as I do with everything else. I think part of wants this to be a way of storing wealth for a rainy day and the other part of me is the big kid who wants a hidden treasure lol. in my line of work I can earn ridiculous amounts of money one month and next to nothing the next. I want a way to be able to buy my kids there fist cars, pay for there first holidays and college. I don't want to be short when they need something. I think that is why I like the idea of having a pile of silver and maybe some gold later on. in my head savings are easy to use when times are hard, £50 here £100 there. but with silver it will not be as easy to just spend. I cant walk round the shop with it or shop online with it. I don't know if that is a good reason to get into silver or not.

[silversword]

thank you silversword.

great advice. I will look into buying bigger bars. but I think I will do the coins to. it sounds as if they both have there advantages, buying from Germany never occurred to me, could you recommend any sellers?

 

Personal favourite of mine is Silver-to-Go, which I have used several times and been very pleased with. Others have also had good experiences with dealers such as Europe Silver Bullion, and Liberty Silver in Estonia. There's a sticky thread on here with a list of recommended dealers.

 

Previously I had always used Atkinsons here in the UK but when I did a recent cost analysis, even a small order of around 6-7 coins came out noticeably cheaper from STG, and if you start ordering serious numbers (i.e. 20+ coins at a time) the savings are substantial.

[garthy]

Hi Keeno

 

I pretty much got into silver and gold for the same reason as you, I have no trust in the government or banks, as far as I'm concerned all their policies are short term, they never think far into the future just new ways to prop up the system by borrowing from the future to live a better now, it doesn't take a genius to know their debt based system is flawed and can't go on forever, for me transferring paper for gold and silver is a no brainer as paper based assets will one day go pop, who really knows when this will happen? But it's the best thing we can do to protect ourselves from the morons that led us into this hole in the first place.

 

So anyway what to buy....I started out buying bars, when I thought of gold and silver I always imagined bars and never coins, the only research I did was to compare prices from various sites, that's how I worked out what was the fair price.

I soon worked out that some coins increased in value without the spot price going anywhere, coins like the 2010 1oz lunar tiger from the perth mint which originally sold for around £12 now fetches over £40 consistently on ebay, then I looked into the first lunar series by the perth mint.....I couldn't believe the prices of these coins. 

So after buying bars, American eagles, Maples and Britannias I decided to look for coins with more numismatic value, that's when I went from being an investor to part collector which I never thought would happen, not only am I buying things I love I'm preserving my wealth at the same time. 

Yep accumulating silver and gold coins and bars is a great thing, what you buy is a personnel preference and as long as you pay a fair price you can't go wrong, but I warn you it's easy to get addicted, but saying that it's a good addiction that I can assure you you won't regret.

 

If you're not sure It may be an idea to run through on this forum what your gonna purchase before you press the buy button, you'll get great advise here. 

[Pipers]

Hi Keeno welcome,  It is bad when hard working people get taken advantage of and ripped off, this happened to my parents too.

 

Please remember that most most people on here will have a maximum of 25% of there investments in PMs (commodities).  Others like me started years ago buying a bit of Gold as a hedge against house price increases.

 

You have taken the first step, making the decision to take control of your finances. The vast majority of the population don't, just this decision will give you a big advantage.

 

There are lots of levels of investors on here, from the 1-2 coin persons to the £3000  per order plus.

Just remember if they are buying some silver/ gold they may also be buying some stocks or selling some oil.

 

Moneyweek run a free email about starting investing if you need help, but if you just want to buy silver and gold then that's your decision too.

 

What ever you decide take your time and enjoy yourself 

 

Hope this helps    

[ChrisSilver]

Welcome to the forum

If you wish to buy silver as close to spot as you can then buy coins from Germany, (not not all dealers use this system) but you can legally buy VAT free coins much cheaper than bars due to some current loophole in law. There are also dealers in Estonia with VAT free silver coins.

Also consider buying semi numismatic coins that will gain in collectors premium over the years, Perth mint 1oz kookaburra coins and lunar series coins are an example (though there are a lot more) if you are selling directly to the secondary market when you come to sell then you may find these give you a better return on investment.

Personally I do not invest in stocks like Pipers suggested. I see investing in public companies that trade on the stock exchanged as high risk. But I do agree that other investments are good to balance the portfolio. Though not everyone is an investor, some use precious metals as a savings.

I don't think this will happen but; Just be aware that there is a chance that when you come to sell your precious metals they won't have increased to compensate for inflation. Timing is key and on a huge 100%+ price rise you should consider selling some of your position, just look at a price chart and you will see that there are probably a lot of investors who thought prices were going to go even higher and held on only for a 50%+ crash in price.

I would recommend working out how much you can afford to spend per month on silver and then make a regular small purchase each month from a dealer in Germany or Estonia, it will soon add up to a lot.

To see a list of compiled dealers check the pinned topic in the "General precious metals" forum section.

[KeenoStakz]

Thanks for all the replies. They have made me think more clearly about what in looking to achieve from silver. IM not looking for high returns in years to come, in looking to preserve my wealth in a way that the government cant stick there hands in my wallet every time i want to do something with my money. So i now think i come under he savings group of silver stackers. To be completely honest, and i know this may make no sense to some people but i don't even mind a slight loss in years to come. I cannot see it being anywhere near as bad as the percentage my grandparents lost when using their life insurance and pensions.

i am going to start small. Around 8-10 coins a month. And i will progress into more expensive coins and maybe bars when i know what in looking at.

thanks again people. You have helped me understand silver stacking in a way that makes sense to me.

[doogs]

They may cost a wee bit more than other silver bullion but, I would suggest buying Chinese Pandas.

The design changes every year and the demand for them is increasing.

 

Be aware that there are a lot of fakes out there so, I recommend buying from an established dealer.

As Chris said earlier there is a forum posting pinned in the "general precious metals" section showing various dealers.