Investing in Miners when you're in the UK

[Aoutp]

Hi there,

I was wondering what was your personal experience regarding miners. There are currently a couple of miners that are of interest to me but it feels like every Stocks & Shares ISA provider is charging you at the very least £10 per order when you want to buy or sell a non-UK stock (and the ones I'm currently interested in are obviously American).

Did I miss something ?

[HawkHybrid]

there is a commission/per trade cost for every trade that you

make in shares, regardless of whether the stock is listed on the

london stock exchange or not. I try to stick to producing/soon to

be producing miners.

 

HH

[Shinus73]

£10 is around average for a share trade fee, so don't let that put you off.

Be prepared for the volatility - my miners are up a ridiculous amount so far this year, but could fall back just as quickly. 

I also own 5,000 shares in a gold miner, purchased 18 months ago and costing me £2,000. They are now worth £100 on a good day.

[Aoutp]

Well I found this broker https://www.degiro.co.uk. Their fees are ridiculously low, the only problem being that they don't offer an ISA yet. They say they will launch it in the next couple of months.

Do you have any idea how it would work from a taxes point of view if I open a standard account, invest in some stocks and then transfer these stocks to an ISA when they launch it ? (internal transfer fees are £7.5)

 

 

[stackspot]

You can't transfer shares from a Trading Account into an Isa Account. You have to sell and re-buy.

[Shinus73]

Also, a number of ISA providers don't allow you to hold the mining ETF's, but individual stocks are usually OK.

[HawkHybrid]

3 hours ago, Aoutp said:

Well I found this broker https://www.degiro.co.uk. Their fees are ridiculously low, the only problem being that they don't offer an ISA yet. They say they will launch it in the next couple of months.

Do you have any idea how it would work from a taxes point of view if I open a standard account, invest in some stocks and then transfer these stocks to an ISA when they launch it ? (internal transfer fees are £7.5)

 

 

 

work out your trading strategy. if you are a buy and hold investor

the one off trade fee is insignificant over the investment period.

if you are a trader then you can use up your cgt allowance each

year until you can transfer the cash into an isa. (when using

normal dealing accounts, selling at the end of the tax year and

then buying at the beginning of the next tax year will allow you

to use that years cgt allowance for that trade).

 

HH

[Aoutp]

Thanks for your replies.

I'm really not familiar with the tax system (I was a student not so long ago!). What is exactly the cgt allowance ? Is that the (in)famous £11k that aren't taxed (I thought these 11k were only salary related)

 

[HawkHybrid]

should your shares make you money it is considered as capital gains.

everyone has a capital gains tax(cgt) allowance each year. currently

it's ~£11k. as your unused cgt allowance does not roll over each year

it is preferred to use up all of your entitlement each tax year. all things

that are classified as capital gains (eg profits on foreign pm sales) will

count towards the cgt allowance for that year. for salary related

allowance you may be thinking of income tax allowance (which is

something different)?

 

HH

[Aoutp]

Yeah that's what I was thinking about, income tax allowance! Isn't it also £11k ?

So if everyone has up to £11k of CGT allowance each year, what exactly are ISAs for ? Is it something that comes on top of your CGT allowance ?

 

[HawkHybrid]

isas are for investments where you plan to make more than

£11k capital gains profit in any single tax year. all gains

within an isa are cgt free so does not count towards your

cgt allowance for that year. (think of it like buying cgt free

coins eg sovereigns)

 

HH

[Aoutp]

Right so basically you're telling me there's no reason for me to wait for Degiro to launch their ISAs ! I'm definitely not expecting more than £11k this year, still got my student loan to pay back

 

 

[HawkHybrid]

https://www.reddit.com/r/investing/comments/3an8hz/de_giro_fees_proscons/

 

the lending shares bit is worth a read. I would say that more

research is required.

 

http://moneygrower.co.uk/2015/06/degiro-a-review-of-uks-cheapest-investing-platform/

Who is Degiro good for:

1. People that have previous investing experience and know what they are doing

2. Traders:

 

HH

[Aoutp]

Thanks, I'll have a look !

I don't get it, how does it even make sense that they are allowed to lend the shares that you do own since you paid for them ? How is this even legal ? 

[Pipers]

I have to say @Aoutp you would be better going to one of the big firms there are plenty of them.  Pay the £10 or so fee to play use all the allowances the Government gives out.  If you need help to choose a provider there are plenty of comparison sites 

link http://moneyweek.com/personal-finance/isas/stocks-shares-isa-providers-cost-comparison-table/ 

As far as miners go you only have 7 in the FTSE 100

 

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-markets/stocks/indices/constituents-indices.html?index=UKX&industrySector=1770&page=1

 

[SoulUK]

Just a note, just because we all have a CGT allowance, doesn't mean you don't need to inform HMRC if you stay below it. it only means you don't owe tax on it. Meaning you should still inform HMRC of your dealings with personal assets (minus the usual, i.e. personal cars, (1) private residence)

(once a year via self assessment forms)

[HighlandTiger]

Just a note, just because we all have a CGT allowance, doesn't mean you don't need to inform HMRC if you stay below it. it only means you don't owe tax on it. Meaning you should still inform HMRC of your dealings with personal assets (minus the usual, i.e. personal cars, (1) private residence)

(once a year via self assessment forms)

Not sure you are 100% correct in that claim. I would be interested to see the relevant piece of legislature that says if you never exceed your cgt allowance you still have to inform HMRC

It may be an advisory, but as far as I understood it, it is not a legal requirement.

[Bumble]

In the UK, you will need to fill in a tax return and declare your capital gains if your total disposals in the year exceeded £44,400 or your total gains exceeded £11,100 (or both). This is covered in these notes: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/505151/sa108-notes_2016.pdf

Another reason to fill in the capital gains portion of the tax return is if you make a loss on the year, because losses can be carried forward and set against gains in future years.

[SoulUK]

On 14/07/2016 at 19:34, Bumble said:

In the UK, you will need to fill in a tax return and declare your capital gains if your total disposals in the year exceeded £44,400 or your total gains exceeded £11,100 (or both). This is covered in these notes: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/505151/sa108-notes_2016.pdf

Another reason to fill in the capital gains portion of the tax return is if you make a loss on the year, because losses can be carried forward and set against gains in future years.

My bad, this is top notch!

[shemyaza]

Mentioned this months ago, see my link as well. Also to the Barter Trade taxation policy of HMRC and notice the design of it. Bumble, you're way behind the curve. But great to re-remind everyone. I did pass this on many months ago. My stocks picks are a little different to the inverse mainstream view which wants you to lose money. Used some of the profits to buy my Ursa Majors. I also watch 80 key stocks and have watched the algorithmic trading in all of them since June 2015. You'll start to see a top in many stocks with under-performing stocks rising to a median par amongst the market, what most analysts would refer to on a graph as resistance.

[shemyaza]

I just put my money where my mouth is on Monday 25th July with iii's regular monthly. Anglo-American, Polymetal International and Fresnillo bought. So far I'm up +9% on the Non-book values. Sell-limits are in place at +10% profit after Commissions and Stamp Duty costs.

[shemyaza]

Sold nicely for a clear profit. Median research so far proving successful.

[shemyaza]

FerrExpo sold at massive profit at 82.256p, bought below 20p, Iron Ore Miner. Thank you USA Steel Tariffs in June, I knew you were coming and bought wisely!!!

[Dune69]

I know its been mentioned above but some people get confused about  "gain".. Your allowance is on your profit and not on the sell value

You can also gift your husband or wife part of your investment and use their ctg allowance hence double the yearly allowance  amount

[shemyaza]

Precisely and Sales Taxes offset CGT as you can't pay tax twice, miners typically carry stamp duty reserve tax which can also be used as a deduction against CGT which is stated clearly on the HMRC website so you can offset that cost from your clear gain to recover it and reduce your CGT.