Gold sold - my lessons learned

[mr-dead]

The cheapest 1oz silver at silvertogo is 24% over spot, thats still quite a jump in price required to break even if dealers pay 100% spot price.

[Danny-boy]

The cheapest 1oz silver at silvertogo is 24% over spot, thats still quite a jump in price required to break even if dealers pay 100% spot price.

Lol.

As I said, why would you when you can get far more elsewhere?

That's like BMW offering you £13K part ex, but you sell to Webuyanycar for £10K just "because".

[Guest]

I don't get all this stuff about selling to a dealer.. I have never sold anything to a dealer but if that is your thing clearly it is best to stick to common bullion sovereigns which are immediately recognizable.

I do not buy for investment! On the other hand my gold investments have gone up between 20% and 40% on average. Most of my silver investments are like fine wine and still require to be kept for another 3 to 4 years for maturity.

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[KDave]

45 minutes ago, Numistacker said:

I don't get all this stuff about selling to a dealer.. I have never sold anything to a dealer but if that is your thing clearly it is best to stick to common bullion sovereigns which are immediately recognizable.

I do not buy for investment! On the other hand my gold investments have gone up between 20% and 40% on average. Most of my silver investments are like fine wine and still require to be kept for another 3 to 4 years for maturity.

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You make a good point Numi. I have sold gold and silver to private individuals and to well known dealers and can say that I had no trouble with either. The only difference was the private individuals paid spot plus postage where as the dealer paid somewhere below spot and made me pay to send it to them! 

[Ravinella]

No Helping Hands are on the Gold Forum and only talking about gold

 

 

[sixgun]

On 6/28/2016 at 09:22, BaldyBob said:

From memory the law states that HMRC should be informed of any purchase above £5K or £10K over a 12 month period. I just assume they tell them everything though.

Money laundering Regs I think.

The currency value of the coins sold is not what is important, it is the capital gains and how many years ago you bought them. There is an indexation allowance which factors in inflation. Atkinsons cannot possibly know what you paid or how long ago you bought the coins. If i sold a painting or some antique would the buyer inform HMRC? They don't. i will be going into Atkinsons to collect some Queens Beasts in the near future so i will ask but i doubt they do contact HMRC.

[BaldyBob]

58 minutes ago, sixgun said:

The currency value of the coins sold is not what is important, it is the capital gains and how many years ago you bought them. There is an indexation allowance which factors in inflation. Atkinsons cannot possibly know what you paid or how long ago you bought the coins. If i sold a painting or some antique would the buyer inform HMRC? They don't. i will be going into Atkinsons to collect some Queens Beasts in the near future so i will ask but i doubt they do contact HMRC.

I stated 'purchase' , i.e. you buying, not the dealer, and having checked, yes the dealer has to notify of individual purchases of over £5k or £10k over 1 year.

Foe example http://www.atsbullion.com/faqs/transaction-limits/

 

 

[sovereignsteve]

On 28/06/2016 at 01:12, HighlandTiger said:

My biggest mistake in the past was listening to the semi numi guys on here, It may work for others, but in my case it was and still is, (until I can get rid of all my silver coins) a total disaster. 

Why has it been a total disaster? Did you buy the wrong coins or pay too much?

Or are you not willing to wait for them to "mature"?

[HighlandTiger]

12 hours ago, Danny-boy said:

I don't get this "sell to a dealer" thing, why do people get so hung up on it.

People do it with gold because of the buy / sell spread. That's not a reason to suggest doing so with silver, in fact I don't know anybody who has ever done it with silver.

I'd proffer that keenly bought silver can be sold on eBay individually for a profit, and as a bulk lot for less of a profit.

I have worked out numerous times that STG bought silver, even when sold in tubes, will net a very tiny profit after fees on eBay. Not enough to make a business out of, but that's not the point.

You'll note from HGM that very rarely do they have silver coins, because people know they can get far more privately.

Have to agree with Danny here. Especially with silver flatware. Even though I have a dealer who will process my flatware for around 95% to 98%. (he has a deal with someone else who buys from him at spot, but he won't tell me who ), Most Ebay auctions can result in sales of over spot even after fees etc. I've been monitoring the sales of silver flatware on ebay in recent days, and the ability to buy under spot is getting harder, (but still not impossible), most sales are getting at least 98% of spot, more if your ebay presentation of the item is good.  

However most dealers for scrap silver will give you 88% of spot, and if you can buy at spot that is a 12% buy sell spread.

As an example  STG do a buy back of coins over spot price but at about 20% - 25% less than the selling price, so double the buy sell spread of flatware if going down the buy from a dealer, sell to a dealer route. 

But selling on ebay, you can make a profit selling bullion coins, but you do have to factor in getting stung by a dodgy buyer, getting your packing and postage costs right, and the time and effort putting your auctions up. Hint to everyone. Never throw away any packaging you receive. Save it all, even the torn envelopes. You'll be surprised how far  a 99p roll of brown packing tape will go.  

[HighlandTiger]

6 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

Why has it been a total disaster? Did you buy the wrong coins or pay too much?

Or are you not willing to wait for them to "mature"?

Whilst the bullion coins can and will be sold at nice profit. The proofs have been a disaster. They have either stayed the same in value or in most cases fallen. The prices paid were the same as everyone else was paying at the time. However, and this is my point, I'm not a collector, the idea of holding PM's for me is to make money, nothing more, nothing less. If Silver rises 20% in price, I would hope that my stack would also increase by the same amount. However the silver proofs are selling at the same prices pre Brexit as they are today. No increase whatsoever. Yes they may increase in time, (I stress may), but not at the same rate as my bog standard flatware. The ONLY way in my opinion to make money on semi numi and proofs is to wait for the split second the mint sells out, and then hit ebay and flip immediately relying on the panic buying rush, to maximise profits, the longer you wait , the lower the price will drop. The silver coin semi numi market is a very young one, maybe only 20 years old, There will come a time when the market is flooded with too many silver coin issues, no-one can collect everything and prices will fall to the floor. I've seen it in the stamp market. Too many commemorative stamps flood the market, and you can now buy at less than release cost. You can see the coin market already going this way. There are many issues already on sale for less than official release price. Even the Perth Mint Lunar one series, a bastion of silver numi collecting, is selling at prices less than they were a year ago, and yet silver has increased by over 40%. 

Nah, silver coins are not for me, (unless I can buy them mega cheap, like the £19 Brits, which made me handsome profit), Gold sovs and sterling silver spoons will be the bulk of my stack. 

[mr-dead]

For me selling silver privately would have become a problem of scale, equivalent silver to my gold stack would have been over 3000oz.

To piece that out and sell on ebay would have taken a hell of a lot of time and effort.

With the volatility of silver the spot price you decide to sell at may look completely different by the time you get to the end of your sales.

[Agpanda]

I have just over 200Oz, almost all of them are pandas

I know that I can sell most of them with a nice profit

The ones I have graded myself, of bought early is double the money atm.

But i am not interessed of selling, It is my collection

If I did´nt collected pandas, it had to be something else as it is in my blood

[FriedrichVonHayek]

In an act of heresy I have sold most of my physical Gold and bought into a Gold ETF(BULP) and a Silver ETF(PHAG).

Although these type of investments are not as good as having the metal in your possession they can be bought and sold very quickly with no hassle.

I will keep a small amount of physical Silver for the time being.

[vand]

Selling silver is not a concern for me. I'm pretty sure that I can get the "going price" by selling off 1-2 rolls at a time on fleabay if needed, or otherwise privately.

Understand that by the time this market is mature, efficient selling mechanisms will have developed that minimise the cost - that is one of the inevitable consequences of bull markets as more players and innovators come into the market.  And already I am seeing silver premiums come down a few % as the spot price moves up - eg ASEs that were 26-27% above spot now typically go for 22-23% above spot, as the absolute premium is unchanged, but of course as the spot price rises, the premium becomes less of the overall price.

[Bewarethebear]

On 27/06/2016 at 19:11, mr-dead said:

So now I have sold my entire gold stack I thought I would post some of my lessons learned for anyone that may be interested.

Total amount of gold sold - just under 55oz

A total mishmash of coins, bars, bullion and semi numi stuff.

 

My lessons learned

1) Fractionals at 1/4oz or under are defo easier to sell than larger items.  Older Pandas were the most popular followed by the lunar series and retain the greatest premium.

2) Bars do not sell as well as coins (no problem at the dealer but you will get a lower payment compared to selling privately)

3) It takes a lot of time and hassle to piece out your stack if you want to maximise profit, the more diverse the stack the longer it will take.

4) Having physical gold makes it harder to react to spot price, when you decide to sell you will be praying spot price doesnt take a big hit on the way to the dealer.

5) Atkinsons pricing is based on either an AM or PM price fix (I got todays 3 PM price fix at just over £1000oz)

6) Make sure you keep a good spreadsheet of your stack - makes life a lot easier at selling time.

7) I know this is  "thesilverforum" but I am so glad I put my money in to gold over silver.  I cant imagine how long it would have taken to sell the equivalent value in silver compared to my gold stack as it would have had to be private sales to make up for any VAT and increased premiums on silver coins/bars.

My stacking strategy moving forward:

I plan to continue buying gold on the next dip but my approach will change significantly.

1) I will split funds between a physical stack and a bullionvault account

2) Physical stack will consist of 100% sovereigns, used as a long term retirement investment.  

3) I will not stray into the semi numi coins for simplicity and easier selling when the time comes.
 
4) Bullionvault account will be used for real time buying/selling in relation to spot price movements and will also enable me to play the GSR ratio when possible.

Summary.

It was a very strange feeling walking into atkinsons this morning with a box holding a few years of hard work and dedication.  

The big plus side is that gold stacking has enabled me to save far more money than I ever would have managed if I was just banking fiat.  I will get a real sense of satisfaction when I settle my mortgage 11 years early saving a lot on interest payments and ensuring a safe and secure future for my family.

OTHERS OPINIONS MAY VARY

 

 

 

 

Thank you for this information. As a new collector and investor trying to understand the vast amount of information available out there has made it 

really hard to commit to purchasing anything. This has enlightened me. with the price of silver at moment have a few kg of silver could not hurt. As for the gold 

sovereign and kruger rands are of interest. Maybe a bar or two. 
 

Bear

 

[airmac]

On 02/07/2016 at 19:38, alec86 said:

I just sold all 80oz of silver I had today all brought in 2014 after a quick look it looks like I broke even or made a small loss but just wanted rid.

I brought most from STG, a mix of most of the 1oz coin's they had, and the only thing that made me money was the Canadian maple leafs (lucky I brought loads). I lost money on the rest... yeah I could of messed around trying to sell them at a profit but the time and effort was not worth it.

But the GOLD  I made between 20% - 30% profit on the ones I sold 

My advice on gold... BUY sovereigns nothing else I got 98% spot selling but only offered 90% for foreign gold coins (I didn't sell). every pawn shop has seen a sovereign most haven't seen a french 20F or a 4 Ducat and that makes it hard work to sell. 

 

Would that also be your opinion on gold eagles?

[Serendipity]

Great post! Many thanks!

[Pipers]

In the past i sold most of my stack which was gold,  I agree selling gold coins in around 2011 was easy all i had was sovereigns and Krugerrand's.  Now i have silver too IMO a bad decision although i will sell quickly to a dealer at the right time for me.  With my flatware and hollow ware i will also sell to a dealer may be in the  London vaults I'm not sure yet.   

[RacerCool]

On 27/06/2016 at 11:11, mr-dead said:

My lessons learned

1) Fractionals at 1/4oz or under are defo easier to sell than larger items.  Older Pandas were the most popular followed by the lunar series and retain the greatest premium.

The big plus side is that gold stacking has enabled me to save far more money than I ever would have managed if I was just banking fiat.  I will get a real sense of satisfaction when I settle my mortgage 11 years early saving a lot on interest payments and ensuring a safe and secure future for my family.

 

 

 

 

I'm glad my focus has been on 1/4 ounce fractional gold.  In my case, living in the US of A, I choose US mint and Mexican mint coins that were previously in circulation: $5 half Eagles (1/4 ounce), and 5 pesos (1/8 ounce).  I have yet to buy any pure minted bullion, like the newer gold Eagles or Libertads, etc.

Also, big congratulations on paying off the mortgage!  I know the feeling, since a couple years ago I cashed in some stocks, etc, for the purpose of paying off all debt, which had been eating away any and all future investments, as well as simply weighing me down severely.

 

[AuricGoldfinger]

On 27/06/2016 at 19:11, mr-dead said:

My stacking strategy moving forward:

I plan to continue buying gold on the next dip but my approach will change significantly.

1) I will split funds between a physical stack and a bullionvault account

2) Physical stack will consist of 100% sovereigns, used as a long term retirement investment.  

3) I will not stray into the semi numi coins for simplicity and easier selling when the time comes.
 
4) Bullionvault account will be used for real time buying/selling in relation to spot price movements and will also enable me to play the GSR ratio when possible.

So i have seen the pics of your stack - what happened to your strategy moving forward! Lol

[mr-dead]

39 minutes ago, AuricGoldfinger said:

So i have seen the pics of your stack - what happened to your strategy moving forward! Lol

turns out holding a 1kg gold bar is more satisfying than a sovereign lol

 

[Serendipity]

32 minutes ago, RacerCool said:

I'm glad my focus has been on 1/4 ounce fractional gold.  In my case, living in the US of A, I choose US mint and Mexican mint coins that were previously in circulation: $5 half Eagles (1/4 ounce), and 5 pesos (1/8 ounce).  I have yet to buy any pure minted bullion, like the newer gold Eagles or Libertads, etc.

Also, big congratulations on paying off the mortgage!  I know the feeling, since a couple years ago I cashed in some stocks, etc, for the purpose of paying off all debt, which had been eating away any and all future investments, as well as simply weighing me down severely.

 

I’m always interested in the American understanding of fractional gold coins. The most popular British gold coin, of course, which we’ve been stacking for ages in the UK is the sovereign which is really a fractional gold coin. It’s gratifying to see some Americans are also into fractional gold coins.

[AuricGoldfinger]

@mr-dead haha that made me laugh, so true! Although i think your stack in sovereigns would be around 1600 sovs which is certainly enough to roll all over the floor on top off while cackling insanely 

[mae]

On 27/06/2016 at 20:11, mr-dead said:

1) I will split funds between a physical stack and a bullionvault account

This is good if you plan to get in and out. I just sold all my metals at Goldmoney.com buy the way, just today.