Gold Sovereign's

[Dave]

No disrespect bud, but i can't see how you can make that statement when you have not tried both......

. No disrespect taken, don't need an overpriced copy of the original,

[ChrisSilver]

Thanks for the useful info DogSoilder I have never bought any gold sovereigns, they sound so small. I would be afraid to loose it.

I didn't realise they had such low premiums! This looks nice: http://www.coininvest.com/en/gold-coins/sovereign/full-sovereign-elizabeth-gold-2014/ is this a good price for a sovereign?

Based on that price I make it £852.80 per ounce. Spot is at £805.

1oz kangaroo nugget is only £847.88 from coininvest at the moment

I just realised that my calculations are incorrect. This was based on .999 fine. And these sovereigns are only 22 carats. This makes purchasing an ounce coin even cheaper compared to sovereigns.

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[Pete]

A word of caution to all you newbies starting a sovereign collection.

 

Be aware that to the first-timers you may not be able to tell if a coin is a sovereign or a half sovereign.

I showed a number of people a half sovereign and asked them if the coin was a full sovereign or not.

Ditto with the full sovereign but not at the same time.

 

Several years ago I purchased a half sovereign on eBay and to my surprise it turned out to be a full sovereign.

Hasn't happened again though so don't rely on grandad's opinion - weight it !!

[Shiny]

Agreed Pete. Once you have handled a couple of each you soon realise the difference.But the jewellers copies are a different kettle of fish.

[Richardski]

I have to say, I am a sovereign fan at present - but a boring one i'm afraid.

 

My plan is to purchase 1+ sovereign per month each month and to purchase the most recent year - hopefully uncirculated.

 

Reasons :

 

*  Over time I will have a good collection all in mint condition

*  No capital gains tax to be paid, in case there is an enormous price rise

*  Not too expensive at an average of £200 each

*  Easily trade-able - to Goldsmiths, eBay and other outlets

*  Easily transportable should the need arise.

*  Content in the fact that they suffer no damage or price reduced because of scratches or wear.

 

Despite this, I will admit, collecting different years and Kings/Queens is much more interesting.

 

BTW the odd Britannia purchase on 'special occasions' for the same reasons above (though 1oz gold bars are slightly better value but not CGT exempt).

[thesoundman]

 

My plan is to purchase 1+ sovereign per month each month and to purchase the most recent year - hopefully uncirculated.

 

Reasons :

 

*  Over time I will have a good collection all in mint condition

*  No capital gains tax to be paid, in case there is an enormous price rise

*  Not too expensive at an average of £200 each

*  Easily trade-able - to Goldsmiths, eBay and other outlets

*  Easily transportable should the need arise.

*  Content in the fact that they suffer no damage or price reduced because of scratches or wear.

Strange, my plan is exactly the same    and for the same reasons....

[Richardski]

Strange, my plan is exactly the same    and for the same reasons....

I can see you are very discerning 

[Richardski]

I have both the Victorian sovereign balance's and the fisch and IMO the fisch is FAR better! The Victorian balance is ok....but the problem with it, is it is a balance so you don't get a definite yes or no, where as with the fisch it tips and touches so you get a definite yes, and also the Victorian balance is metal so can scratch your sovereigns as you pass them through the slot (Which i think are over sized) where as the fisch is tough plastic precisely machine cut and won't scratch your sovereigns and the recess is also oversize so the sovereign and half sovereign has movement room on the Victorian balance where as on the fisch it is nice and tight! 

Like i said i have both....but i'd use the fisch over the sovereign balance any day of the week. 

 

I think they were probably allowed to patent the design because they have a completely different final result when they operate....like i said the Victorian balance is "a balance" and the fisch is "a scale". 

 

Just out of interest, have you ever had a Fisch Dave?

Hi, i'm interested in the Fisch - I've noticed them on eBay at £102 - is this the best place to get one?

[Cointreau]

I'll have to get one of these fisches. I have a few sovs and I think the young head Vics are the best ones to own followed by George V.

I too have a 1966 sov. Does the Fisch check other coins?

[DogSoldier1973]

Hi, i'm interested in the Fisch - I've noticed them on eBay at £102 - is this the best place to get one?

Hi Richardski, Yes you can get them from Ken's ebay account: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fisch-Fake-Coin-Detector-for-the-Gold-Krugerrand-/200912725242?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec754e4fa

Or direct from his website: http://www.thefisch.com/

I would only buy from them two places though, as these have been faked in the past, so it's best to buy direct from Ken so you know you're getting the real fisch and not a fake one Like i said before i think they are well worth the money and work perfectly. If they save you from buying just one fake then they've done their job and paid you back.

[DogSoldier1973]

I'll have to get one of these fisches. I have a few sovs and I think the young head Vics are the best ones to own followed by George V.

I too have a 1966 sov. Does the Fisch check other coins?

The fisch checks many coins, but you need to buy the right wallet for the coins you want to check. See his website: http://www.thefisch.com/

I have wallet two which checks the Krugerrand 1oz, 1/2oz, 1/4oz & 10th oz. the American Gold Eagle 1oz, 1/2oz, 1/4oz & 10th oz. the Gold Britannia 1987-2012 1oz, 1/2oz, 1/4oz & 10th oz. the gold sovereign and the South African gold 2 Rand.

 

I did a video about it on Youtube check it out: 

[Richardski]

The fisch checks many coins, but you need to buy the right wallet for the coins you want to check. See his website: http://www.thefisch.com/

I have wallet two which checks the Krugerrand 1oz, 1/2oz, 1/4oz & 10th oz. the American Gold Eagle 1oz, 1/2oz, 1/4oz & 10th oz. the Gold Britannia 1987-2012 1oz, 1/2oz, 1/4oz & 10th oz. the gold sovereign and the South African gold 2 Rand.

 

I did a video about it on Youtube check it out: 

Thanks for the advice DogSoldier and the Video is really useful.

 

How have the 2014 coins fared? I think the gold Britannia has reverted back to pre 2013 size (if I've read the dimensions properly) so is the set OK for  2014 in your experience?

 

Richard

[Pete]

This product looks extremely expensive and if you have to add more plates to measure a wider selection of coins then you are parting with a lot of cash.

As I understand it you are checking diameter, thickness and weight for a single specific coin type.

You are not measuring weight simply looking at a tilting balance.

Thicknes is a letter box approach - if it doesn't pass through the slot then it might be a fake.

Diameter is a post in a hole - if it fits then it's okay, if it is too large it isn't.

 

Every coin has detailed specifications published.

Measure diameter with callipers or a vernier gauge - even a steel precision ruler.

Measure thickness with a vernier or micrometer or set the gap to the spec and see if the coin passes through.

Weigh using electronic scales that are very high precision and cost from £5 to £35 for the better quality version.

This way you can authenticate ANY coin.

 

Fakes tend to be the correct diameter and generally thicker to try and make up the weight difference.

Faking gold is difficult and coins tend to be thicker and underweight.

Weight is very important - if underweight be suspicious and measure thickness.

[Danny-boy]

I must admit, I was wondering what the fisch does that scales, rare earth magnet and calipers can't.

That's how I check mine.

[DogSoldier1973]

Thanks for the advice DogSoldier and the Video is really useful.

 

How have the 2014 coins fared? I think the gold Britannia has reverted back to pre 2013 size (if I've read the dimensions properly) so is the set OK for  2014 in your experience?

 

Richard

Thanks Richardski I haven't picked up the 2014 sovereign yet, but will be doing shortly. Will let you know the results

[DogSoldier1973]

I must admit, I was wondering what the fisch does that scales, rare earth magnet and calipers can't.

That's how I check mine.

I think its just easier than carrying around scales, magnet, calipers and book of measurements.

 

Obviously not everybody would want to put up the money for such a kit, but i liked it, it works and like i said when going around car boots etc it is easier and faster and you cause less of a scene than pulled out scales, books  etc...and especially for a beginner (which i was at the time) it is fool proof and gives piece of mind.

[Danny-boy]

Fair enough DS, I can see the advantages.

"Book of measurements" - we have the internet and smartphones now!!!!!

Ha ha

[Pete]

I think its just easier than carrying around scales, magnet, calipers and book of measurements.

 

Obviously not everybody would want to put up the money for such a kit, but i liked it, it works and like i said when going around car boots etc it is easier and faster and you cause less of a scene than pulled out scales, books  etc...and especially for a beginner (which i was at the time) it is fool proof and gives piece of mind.

 

Cannot argue with that but did you ever pick up a coin at a car boot sale and use the kit to check ?

[DogSoldier1973]

Cannot argue with that but did you ever pick up a coin at a car boot sale and use the kit to check ?

Not at a car boot sale....No. I didn't come across any sovereigns at all, but saying that....i only came across 2 silver coins in weeks and weeks of attending car boots! So that's not too surprising, they certainly aren't like they used to be!

 

But antique fairs is a whole different matter...and yes i have used it at antique fairs, one coin fair, one of my local pawn shops and also a local jewellers

[Pete]

Not at a car boot sale....No. I didn't come across any sovereigns at all, but saying that....i only came across 2 silver coins in weeks and weeks of attending car boots! So that's not too surprising, they certainly aren't like they used to be!

 

But antique fairs is a whole different matter...and yes i have used it at antique fairs, one coin fair, one of my local pawn shops and also a local jewellers

I've never bought a coin at a fair etc. but I did buy silver Eagles in a USA coin shop and was very happy with prices.

Beat APMEX hands down !

How did your prices in antique shops etc, compare with on-line sellers and eBay ?

[Danny-boy]

I'd love to find a big stash of silver coins at a car boot.

[Ryan AC]

I think the fisch set is more for jewellers who deal with hundreds of sovereigns to save time and time is money in the workplace.

For the average person buying just a few or one here and there then a metal ruler/calipers and a pair of scales is plenty, helps if you've handled a few to be able to judge at a glance but the weight, thickness and diameter is all that needs checking.

I expect the weight and thickness is probably the vital ones as a copy with a larger diameter wouldn't be any good when someone buys it to set into a mount so it's more likely going to be an added thickness than diameter.

I love sovereigns and had a fair few myself, personally I like the old ones, nothing with the current head on them, old ones are always worth a bit more, they can be bought cheaper and quite a few are worth a lot more than spot. My parents come from fruit and veg suppliers and had market stalls so have loads of them stored away in cases, plastic wallets and different jewellery, a nice bracelet with 5 in a date run mounted as well which is probably my favourite piece of gold I've seen tbh.

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[Pushingtin]

I have the fisch set and I bought (unknowingly) jewellers copies of sovereigns in Dubai.

 

They passed the fisch test! The good news was they still were 21 or 22K gold which is why they passed the test - so I was not completely done out as thankfully there is not a very high premium on sovereigns. So I sold the jewellers copies back to a jeweller and lost very little.

 

Moral of the story - there might be a rare sovereign that is worth big $$$ - careful as it could indeed be a jewellers copy that in fact passes the fisch test.

[Danny-boy]

I have the fisch set and I bought (unknowingly) jewellers copies of sovereigns in Dubai.

They passed the fisch test! The good news was they still were 21 or 22K gold which is why they passed the test - so I was not completely done out as thankfully there is not a very high premium on sovereigns. So I sold the jewellers copies back to a jeweller and lost very little.

Moral of the story - there might be a rare sovereign that is worth big $$$ - careful as it could indeed be a jewellers copy that in fact passes the fisch test.

I thought sovereigns were 22ct anyway?

[Pete]

I bought a few sovereigns from a reputable bullion dealer.

I always weight them and found 1 underweight.

I then measured its thickness and it was too thick.

Both measurements very easy to make.

Compared to the real sovereign I calculated that it was likely to be 18ct gold not 22ct.

The dealer replaced it and using an XRF machine confirmed this and told me it was a jeweller's copy.

That is the reason I would recommend electronic scales everytime.