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  1. Sovereign Rings

    Anyone born in the 90's IS a baby ...
  2. 1/4 oz or 1 full oz?

    Ignore this if you already know it ... In the context of precious metals, the spot price is basically the paper market price - that isn't exactly true, but for our purposes it is a good enough definition. Paper gold and silver trades near spot, and that's what you'll see in the funny pages. Physical gold and silver, however, has its own price. Think of it this way, the silver you own, if someone just walks up to you and asks you to sell your silver for whatever the spot price is that is in today's financial newspaper, are you obligated to sell it to them at that price, or are you going to think about what is likely to happen in the future and charge them that price instead ? Physical gold and silver works like that .. it's actually owned by someone, and they have it stored somewhere, and there is a price they will buy more of it at, and a price that they will sell at, but that price is greatly influenced by what they believe will happen in the markets. The effect of this is that the physical price often hovers around the spot price once the spot price has established itself in a range, but is often very different from the spot price during large price moves. If silver, for example, suddenly had a spot price of 5$us/oz tomorrow, it is very doubtful you would find anyone to actually sell you physical silver at that price, it would take a while at 5$us/oz before people who actually held physical silver to be willing to sell at that price. This can also show up as scarcity i.e. when the price changes you might simply not be able to find physical at any price near spot, and during those times people might say that the physical market has become completely disconnected from the paper market. The difference between physical gold and silver's price and the spot price is basically what people mean when they talk about a "premium". So, for example, if a dealer is selling silver rounds for 30$us/oz and the spot price is 20$us then the round has a 10$us premium. The premium can be affected by a lot of things, it may be higher if you include shipping costs, and it is typically higher for small items than it is for large items because of the amount of labor and effort that goes into making the items. Said another way, it's not nearly as hard to create a single 1000oz bar than it is to mint 1000 1oz silver rounds, so the rounds have a higher premium per ounce than the bar does. Government rounds (coins) also have a higher premium, in silver that premium is typically about 2-5$us/oz higher than the physical price, which itself tends to be 1-3$us/oz higher than spot. When you say you calculate based on price per gram and then figure out who sells the cheapest, you're basically just dealing with the physical price you see listed for specific products, which is a pretty good way to figure out if you're getting a good deal or not. Keep in mind, however, that smaller items (1/4 oz coins for example) have a higher premium relative to their weights than larger items. Also, lower priced metals (copper for example) have higher premiums relative to their overall price, because it takes the same amount of effort to stamp an image on a copper round as it does silver, or gold, so the labor is a higher percentage of the overall price. In the case of 1/4oz coins, the same idea holds, they carry a higher premium per coin because it isn't any easier to make a 1/4oz coin than it is to make a 1oz coin. The premium is also higher on novelty items like rounds with limited edition runs, rounds with gimmicky features, etc. This post is already really long, but when prices fell in 2008/2009 you could not find physical silver rounds for anything near the spot price. Paper silver had dropped, but the people who actually had physical silver wouldn't sell at that price, they simply refused to do it, so the physical price of silver really didn't change at first, and it took months for the physical price to fall to something near the spot price. Also worth noting, and this is something I've only learned since joining this forum, there is a premium on silver in Europe because of the way Europe's tax system works and what they consider "investment" precious metal. I don't know the specifics of it, but it does seem to both drive up the price of silver rounds in Europe and it seems to encourage precious metals investors to lean towards gold.
  3. The price of silver

    Yeah but how long was it at 100:1 ? I'm not a trader that can be pushed out of a silver position. I would pretty much have to hear that they found a way to use cold fusion to create silver from burnt breakfast toast to push me out of silver.
  4. The price of silver

    I agree with this in a way. To me an "investment" is more of an active thing, it is a bit speculative, it means you're interacting with the world to try to create wealth not just trying to store value. If you're making money in silver, you're not really creating wealth, you're pretty much hedging, or storing value. I know the textbook definition would see that as an investment too, because it has the potential to make money, but you aren't really creating wealth in the cosmic sense .. you're not building a structure where none existed, creating a work of art, bringing people together so that their efforts become more than the sum of their efforts individually, etc, and to me that is more of what an "investment" is. I think of a real investment from the perspective of a capitalist, from the perspective of using money to create more than was there, and you really aren't doing that when you buy silver and gold, which I think of more as a currency transaction, or a land purchase. On this argument against believing things will be because they used to be, I think that's an appeal to relativism, and I'm not buying. Lots of things are because they used to be, and many things are cyclic. While it's sometimes true that "past performance is not indicative of future results", I would still bet money that a new mother is going to suckle her newborn baby, that somewhere today a Brit will enjoy some tea, and that spring will inevitably follow winter. Though it may not be an argument to say that something is likely to happen because it has happened in the past, it's also not an argument to say that it won't happen "because future".
  5. The price of silver

    I definitely think its easier to buy silver in anticipation of someday trading it for gold at 80:1 than it would be to buy gold in anticipation of someday trading it for silver at 30:1 ... because I think we all feel that 80:1 is near a top in GSR, while 30:1, well, I would have trouble trading there because it might go to 25:1, or 20:1, or 18:1, or ... I think it is harder to see the other end of that pendulum swing. Could GSR go to 100:1 ? I don't see how that happens, but mileage may vary.
  6. Silver: Keep It Unopened Or Crack It Out And Let It Ring?

    I'll say this, when you sell silver bullion rounds, nobody cares what it looks like. They aren't going to give you a 0.01$us/oz more for them being "pretty", even if they are sealed in individual containers. You MAY be able to get a premium for an Englehard, but even that is unlikely at a dealer, and I routinely see dealers selling Englehards at the same price as Christmas rounds, etc, because they just don't care what is stamped on the round or what it looks like. As a buyer, I also don't care, for the most part, though I will pick out Englehard or an "official mint" style rounds over a Christmas or other gimmicky looking round because I personally prefer them (i.e. not because I think they have better resale value). Silver bullion is basically about how much the silver weighs with a small premium for having them stamped with an image that includes weights and purity.
  7. The price of silver

    I don't even see it this way, what does it even matter if most people don't see silver as money ? Hell, most people are broke, what does it matter what their opinion of silver is. People keep saying that if push came to shove you wouldn't be able to buy anything with silver, really ?! Why, because Jane six pack doesn't know that silver is money, what were you planning on buying from her anyway ? Who cares, she isn't going to have anything you want, she's just going to be wandering around trying to figure out what the hell is going on, as oblivious tomorrow as she is today, as she was yesterday. What really matters is what the people are in control of resources think of silver. So what only 5% of the population knows what silver is worth ... truth is that's the 5% you're going to be dealing with in troubled times, they're the ones who you're going to be trying to trade with. Are we really supposed to stay up worrying that the world's clueless don't know that silver is money when 50% of the population doesn't even have 10k$us to their name when they retire ? I'm sure they're wonderful people, but they're financially irrelevant.
  8. Silver: Keep It Unopened Or Crack It Out And Let It Ring?

    For silver rounds I don't care as long as you can read "1 troy ounce silver" on them somewhere. I suppose I prefer silver with a little bit of tarnish on it, but I don't hold it against silver it if it is shiny either.
  9. The price of silver

    Might I recommend "This time it's different: Eight centuries of financial folly"
  10. We have a similar kind of situation with Trump's election in the U.S. because our politics has turned into a strange kind of urban vs. rural feud and it is the urban people who have access to the media. Look at any county-by-county election map in the U.S. and it is small bits of blue in the cities surrounded by a sea of red in less urban areas. Our media focuses on anything Democratic (one of our two main political parties) including demonstrations, support for gun control, women's marches, etc, and downplays and/or mocks anything rural people think or care about. That seems similar to me to the Brexit issue because it seems like a lot of the people who voted for Brexit were outside the urban centers in the UK, or on the margins, and that it was mostly urban people voting to remain. The media resides in urban areas, it doesn't surprise me that they find common cause with other urban people and their way of seeing the world (i.e. leftist and collectivist instead of separatist and individualist)
  11. I would think that social unrest would be a real possibility. It doesn't seem fair that you could just keep forcing the public to re-vote until you get the result you want.
  12. I've read that the UK might have some kind of "do over" on the Brexit vote, is that true ? I think that's amazing that a vote like that wouldn't stand, it isn't like that wasn't a fair election or something, or that people weren't fully aware of what they were voting on when they went in to vote on the issue. That was one of the hardest fought elections we in America had ever witnessed in the UK from afar, it seems absurd that some might push you back into it just to get a result that they prefer.
  13. The price of silver

    One of my favorite old sayings ... you pays your money and you takes your chance
  14. The price of silver

    There are two questions you need to ask yourself. (1) Silver coins were minted in numerous ancient civilizations including Egypt, Greece, Rome, etc, ... disregarding their historical value, what are those coins worth today ? (2) Thousands of paper currencies have been printed since ancient times ... disregarding their historical value, what are those paper currencies worth today ? Nothing else really needs to be said.