Scottsdales 1oz Bu Ghana leopard mix up

[swAgger]

An interesting one here for those with an eye for oddities. Scottsdale mint about a month ago announced the first release of their next bullion coin series - the 1oz Ghana leopard. A nicely designed bullion coin as usual from Scottsdale, and the usual attractive 50,000 mintage.

It had a face value denomination of 100 Cedis, which is actually £17.50. Bullion should not ever have a face value (no matter your views on obscure currencies) greater than the value of the silver.

Turns out, they have reversed the decision to issue 50,000 and instead allowing just 5,000 to remain in circulation. Likely, the impossibility of getting back the complete numbers that left the mint already, and especially those sold on privately, led to that decision.

They are now re-minting the 50,000 with a new face value of 5 Cedis.

You don't need me to go on in detail about what a rarity this is, and how the original 5,000 will fare in future. Get them while you can, before word fully gets out. There are still a few sellers on ebay as of earlier this morning who haven't heard. Also, Apmex are currently selling off a small quantity but leaving them priced reasonably. Good on them for not doubling it straight away, which other dealers will be!

[Kman]

36 minutes ago, swAgger said:

Scottsdale mint

You don't need me to go on in detail about what a rarity this is, and how the original 5,000 will fare in future

Maybe I'm just very ignorant, but 5000 coins from a mint like Scottsale, eh, that doesn't seem very rare. 

[shawy2510]

Where are these to buy from?

[swAgger]

10 minutes ago, Kman said:

Maybe I'm just very ignorant, but 5000 coins from a mint like Scottsale, eh, that doesn't seem very rare. 

That made me smile, especially with a picture of the orange-headed one

But yes, maybe this area isn't your thing. Believe me, in terms of bullion issues it is a rarity. Not just in terms of number but the quiet re-call of what they could, and re-issue of the entire run. It's golden for semi-numi bullion collectors.

 

[Kman]

26 minutes ago, swAgger said:

But yes, maybe this area isn't your thing. Believe me, in terms of bullion issues it is a rarity. Not just in terms of number but the quiet re-call of what they could, and re-issue of the entire run. It's golden for semi-numi bullion collectors.

I just can't think in 10 years who is going to remember or care about the 100 Cedis 1oz Bu Ghana leopard produced by the Scottsdale mint

Edit> I should say, it's a fairly nicely looking coin and if it's around bullion value can't go wrong really, just think it having a big premium is silly, but just because I don't like it doesn't mean much. 

[metallica73]

$24.18 at Apmex.... 802 in stock though not much use for UK buyers given VAT

36.74 Euros at GS.be for the 'error'. 100 cedis....  22.66 for the 5 Cedis so theres one dealer bumping the price already.

 

One to keep an eye on but with 802 at the Apmex price... hmmm?

 

 

 

 

[daz]

1 hour ago, swAgger said:

 

It had a face value denomination of 100 Cedis, which is actually £17.50. Bullion should not ever have a face value (no matter your views on obscure currencies) greater than the value of the silver.

 

 

 

 

Try telling that to the royal mint !  Have you seen their £100 , £50 and £20 coins ?

What you are saying is only true if you are paying spot price for them and you can find places that will accept them as tender at face value.

 If there is truly a recall on them they may do ok though if purchased close to spot. 

[Augustus1]

one on e bay at this moment but pictures show lots of pitting/ sink marks on the queens head when magnified, I assume this is not right ?

dean.m

[bacass02]

637 left at Apmex.

[bacass02]

On 7/2/2017 at 12:15, swAgger said:

Turns out, they have reversed the decision to issue 50,000 and instead allowing just 5,000 to remain in circulation.

4

Where did you first hear about this? It seems like most dealers are still unaware of the mintage cut. Im in the US and the only dealer I see with the updated mintage is Apmex. I bought quite a few yesterday hoping for the best 

I figured if you can get these things for under their face value and with that low of a mintage it seems like a pretty safe bet. Either no one knows or no one cares lol

[Rhyseyson]

Silvertrader uk seems to have quite a few for 25.99.

Is that a good price?? Doesnt seem to be aware at present of the 5000 mintage still states 50000?

[swAgger]

4 hours ago, bacass02 said:

Where did you first hear about this? It seems like most dealers are still unaware of the mintage cut. Im in the US and the only dealer I see with the updated mintage is Apmex. I bought quite a few yesterday hoping for the best 

I figured if you can get these things for under their face value and with that low of a mintage it seems like a pretty safe bet. Either no one knows or no one cares lol

 

1 hour ago, Rhyseyson said:

Silvertrader uk seems to have quite a few for 25.99.

Is that a good price?? Doesnt seem to be aware at present of the 5000 mintage still states 50000?

It's not at all surprising some sellers are still unaware, or have failed to update their sites with the right info. They are not collectors. Collectors are more inclined to hunt down the clues behind something unusual they see on the market, and assemble the picture for themselves. Dealers are running businesses, and as such usually only react when they are spoon fed the information officially by the mint or the main distributor who supplied them. And that takes time. Especially if you always remember one thing - mints never like to publicize their little booboos. It's embarrassing for them, understandably they have pride to consider. In time, all dealers will be told about the status of this new first version, to change their listing descriptions and hang on while we mint the 50,000 new ones.

This first release of the leopard, when the next re-release of the revised 50,000 happens soon, will never be called an error, by the way. Technically we will all know it was but the mint will make a distinction. And nobody will blame them. The first attempted release (now capped at 5,000) will become known as a limited edition, prior to the official first coin of the series - the 5 cedi with full 50,000 mintage. A limited edition sounds so much better, more orderly. Intentional, even!!! And the mint save some face. Which is fine with everyone, really. Mints are sometimes like the schoolkid who does something stupid in front of his friends and then obstinately insists that's what he meant to do anyway.

The Bavaria State mint had a similar thing when they minted some of the 2010 dated elephant but used the die of the previous 2009 elephant design on the opposite side. They declared a mintage of 30,000 in that case as a limited edition. Like the whole thing was a fun little variation they had intended to do from the start. Incidentally these continue to fetch a nice premium above the regular 2010, all these years later. Worth mentioning that in answer to "why would anyone care years from now about it". Bullion in particular semi-numismatic collector bullion has an indefinite shelf life appeal, unlike the proof market which fades quickly as years pass.

If a mint gets on top of a "mistake" early enough they can control the flow of information, and make an instant decision on how many can they realistically not expect to retrieve, and then cap the mintage of this unusual issue at a nice round number. From there, it's a simple case of controlling the language when speaking of it. There will be no talk of errors or mistakes. Limited edition.... a precursor to celebrate the launch of the mass minted one, etc. etc. No harm done, and we numismatic bullion collectors have a nice little variation to add to the collection.

 

[Rhyseyson]

@swAgger fair enough mate thanks for the above.

How would grading work. I picked myself up a few of the error ones. Would they mark it as mint error or limited edition or just 100 cedis leopard?

[swAgger]

It's important to know and make the distinction it's not a coin error. The physical coin doesn't feature a minting error, like for example if they had spelt and minted Ghana wrong. It is an error by the mint themselves in the denomination of the coin. It was too high. And we can guess it might even have been a problem with the license terms granted by the Ghanaian government, who knows? So this was an administration decision to withdraw the full mintage of that denomination. The very act of doing that creates a variation of this bullion coin (because they are re-issuing in full with a small denomination). Which is where the interest in it comes in. If they had left the whole 50,000 original run alone, and not done anything, there would be no story here. Apart from a footnote noticing the face value is greater than than the silver content.

Graders could never assign a label that indicates anything unusual about the coin itself. Likely it will just be labelled the 100 Cedis Ghana Leopard.

[sjjma]

SD Bullion has this coin for a little over $21.00 each. There are 82 left at the moment. Shipping was $7.77 when I ordered some yesterday.

https://sdbullion.com/2017-african-ghana-leopard-1-oz-silver-coin

[metallica73]

4 hours ago, Rhyseyson said:

Silvertrader uk seems to have quite a few for 25.99.

Is that a good price?? Doesnt seem to be aware at present of the 5000 mintage still states 50000?

I keep looking at that GBP price, then looking at that sdbullion price of $21 and letting out little sighs each time...

[Augustus1]

words out it seems, "Silvertrader uk seems to have quite a few for 25.99. "

just looked Silvertrader uk website says sold out,

but Silvertrader uk got one on e bay for £28.89 !!!

deano

[Rhyseyson]

Glad i got mine whilst they were still about!

[metallica73]

On 02/07/2017 at 18:54, metallica73 said:

36.74 Euros at GS.be for the 'error'. 100 cedis....  22.66 for the 5 Cedis so theres one dealer bumping the price already.

 

Heads up, goldsilver.be have dropped their price for the 100 cedis to 24,28 Euros.   That's 4 EUR above the 5 Cedis and they know about the Error.

And there is a seller in Germany with 10 at £21.78+ shipping on Ebay.

Yet to be convinced myself. Good job i'm skint for the moment I think.

 

 

[swAgger]

1 hour ago, metallica73 said:

Heads up, goldsilver.be have dropped their price for the 100 cedis to 24,28 Euros.   That's 4 EUR above the 5 Cedis and they know about the Error.

And there is a seller in Germany with 10 at £21.78+ shipping on Ebay.

Yet to be convinced myself. Good job i'm skint for the moment I think.

 

 

Again - not an error.

Yes, conflicting prices are to be expected for now. Some sellers often don't know their asses from their elbows when something unexpected comes along. Usually, they have the price ranges of typical new issues set for them in advance, but when something is thrown at them out of the blue, their first reaction is to play it safe by being greedy. Never mind the fact they were more than happy to sell the same ones for the normal mark up the week before. Common sense has kicked in now and they are pitching it just right, in my opinion, at €4 above the other.... for now. For a brand new, current item that is unusual yes but not an error. At least until they are all eventually gone, and the secondary market takes over.

I feel i should say that i assumed there were more collectors of this area, on this forum. I get the impression now there are more stackers. The collectors know you get your return in 2/3/4 years in the collector market, and it has surprisingly very little to do with where silver spot price will be. The importance of silver spot price becomes less and less relevant with collector bullion as time passes. Where stackers are all about spot price and % premiums. The reason i started this thread was to alert the collectors of a gilt edged opportunity to get the "100" version for a limited time in the launch period, and at the added bonus of still being priced at the 50,000 version from a few places.

You say you're yet to be convinced. Of what i'm not sure and i don't really need to know. Honest! 

So i must apologise to you and others who have expressed the same doubts. Because this was not meant to be about convincing anyone of anything. You either recognised it for what it is or you don't. I'm not trying to make anyone go buy anything. I'll admit i got dragged into explaining its merits, and i shouldn't have.

[daz]

No need to apologize mate , we all have different views on what may or not be a winner , and none of us are correct all the time.
There are a lot of collectors on here ( myself included) but we all have to choose what we purchase when we can afford it . I might have been tempted at a lower price but at 25 quid for a bullion ounce there are other coins I'd rather buy.
The face value doesn't come into it for me as it's not like you are ever going to be able to cash it in . To me it's a 5000 mintage bullion coin .
Thanks for the info anyway

[metallica73]

17 minutes ago, swAgger said:

Again - not an error.

I feel i should say that i assumed there were more collectors of this area, on this forum. I get the impression now there are more stackers. The collectors know you get your return in 2/3/4 years in the collector market, and it has surprisingly very little to do with where silver spot price will be. The importance of silver spot price becomes less and less relevant with collector bullion as time passes. Where stackers are all about spot price and % premiums. The reason i started this thread was to alert the collectors of a gilt edged opportunity to get the "100" version for a limited time in the launch period, and at the added bonus of still being priced at the 50,000 version from a few places.

You say you're yet to be convinced. Of what i'm not sure and i don't really need to know. Honest! 

So i must apologise to you and others who have expressed the same doubts. Because this was not meant to be about convincing anyone of anything. You either recognised it for what it is or you don't. I'm not trying to make anyone go buy anything. I'll admit i got dragged into explaining its merits, and i shouldn't have.

I didn't mean error coin but error by the mint.

And this is definitely the place to put this news, plenty of collectors here. Infact probably more than stackers from what i've seen to be honest.

I'm just playing devils advocate really, because i'm not sure how popular Scottsdale silver coins are. Silverline in Germany actually produce some really nice Benin & Chad coins with a 5,000 mintage and as a buyer of Rwanda Rhinos back in 2012 I know the semi-numis stuff does well and has infact held value pretty well.

I'm not actually saying this won't be a winner either, it's very hard to pick what will take off unless you have hindsight.

 

[Rhyseyson]

So, as previously mentioned in another thread, I'm relatively new to this been stacking/collecting/investing whatever you want to call it for a month and half now / 2 months.

The vibe im getting from this thread is that semi numi coins are really where to put your money, as from a stacking/collectors view there nice coins with good designs but also as an investment they hold there value a lot more than say a random bit of silver

Also could be very stupid question, but just had a look at the pics in this thread and is it just the lighting on the photo or is the 5 credits coin got a different back ground. Looks like it's darker in the pattern?

[metallica73]

19 minutes ago, Rhyseyson said:

So, as previously mentioned in another thread, I'm relatively new to this been stacking/collecting/investing whatever you want to call it for a month and half now / 2 months.

The vibe im getting from this thread is that semi numi coins are really where to put your money, as from a stacking/collectors view there nice coins with good designs but also as an investment they hold there value a lot more than say a random bit of silver

Also could be very stupid question, but just had a look at the pics in this thread and is it just the lighting on the photo or is the 5 credits coin got a different back ground. Looks like it's darker in the pattern?

Different Strokes for different folks. Certainly I have gone from stacking to collecting since 2011. There will be others who swear by only buying the cheapest silver/gold close to spot.

I'll give you one example. In 2011/12 I bought Rwandan Rhinos for £35 and regular bullion for £30 per coin. The Rwandan coins have held or increased value despite spot falling from $44 to where it is now. The regular bullion is worth half what I paid for it,

If I had picked up the Rwandan Gorilla from 2008, it would be worth £250+

Difficult to say on the difference in the 2 coins, could just be lighting.

 

[Moi]

Quote

 

Picked one up, like the design and as good a moon shot as any?. Appreciate the heads up. Cheers.