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vand

Platinum - who's buying?

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Yes platinum is at a historically low price compared to gold. Platinum is an industrial metal.
You would think with the stock markets booming so would an industrial metal. Well there's a pointer things aren't doing as well as the powers that should not be, try to make out.
i had 1.25oz of platinum. i don't have any intention of getting more. There isn't the collector base for platinum coins. 

Edited by sixgun

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It is certainly on my buy list for when this house buying nonsense is completed, shouldn't be long now. I will be buying via ETF as well, the spread on physical is high and the market is small. If you buy smaller coins the premium can be recouped when the price goes up but its a risk and slower to find a buyer. Far easier and quicker to buy ETF, cash in on the rise when it happens and I already have some physical.

I see the stuff as a hedge on gold - if history repeats, then platinum needs to go much higher to get to its norms with gold, or gold can fall and platinum can stay where it is. Worth having a bit of it along side gold for this reason alone. Especially given my exposure to gold and the fact its looking like gold may be the one doing the reverting as we speak. :)

Silver is looking nice too at £12.88. The buy list is getting long.

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3 minutes ago, Deputydog said:

Hi, I am unsure how to get into the ETF thing, any tips.

How easy is it to sell Platinum coins if this is a viable option.

Thanks

Deputydog

 

 

Depending on how much you have to spend, If you are unsure how to get into platinum shares then you don't have a broker account but you are on the Silver Forum so you know something about coins. So i would probably recommend you buy a few platinum coins rather than getting embroiled in platinum ETF's. 

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I am a big fan of platinum (OK, I only have 4 ounces admittedly....but I am trying to get all the country 1 ounce designs).  

Honestly I don't think you can quibble over the premium - I predict that at these prices the sellers will be able to shift most of what they have - rarely do you see an American bullion eagle below $1000, but today you can. PCE only have 40 in stock and Apmex only have 150. PCE lower at $992.  If you want a standard bar only $953 for a Valcambi. 

Only downside? These prices are only for the US ! 

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While I am an advocate of holding physical gold and silver, I don't think the case for holding physical platinum is nearly as strong. Gold & silver are recognised as money, platinum is not. Don't expect to be able to liquidate it in a SHTF scenario; your options to sell physical are incredibly limited, and the spread will kill you. Ultimately I am definitely not "collecting" platinum, I'm purely looking at it as a speculative position on the PM market where the risk/reward is favourable. I have my physical gold/silver holdings and will be increasing these, so I'm happy to also hold a purely paper platinum position over the next few years.

At some point platinum's rarity will be seen as a strong reason why it should be much higher, and then there's going to be an almight rush into it which will send it sky high.

Edited by vand

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Is the demand for Platinum in industrial uses still similiar to what it has been? Will the demand for platinum in future industrial uses still be there? 

Electric cars seem to be the future, wont that reduce platinums demand?

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My Palladium looks like it's about to overtake my Platinum, who needs Gold and Silver when these two are stunning to hold now.

Just to re-iterate, Diesel cars use Platinum cats. Platinum became a Central Bank Storage Metal alongside Gold at the end of 2015, I linked the IMF site information in January last year. Diesel has had sudden issues, freeing up supply for........... Palladium will pick up the slack in Petrol Cats, lets see what happens.....

Edited by shemyaza

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Pt going very well lately and starting to outperform both ag and au. I expect that we will look back on 2017 and ask ourselves why we weren't piling (more) into this metal when it was so cheap. 

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I remember having 2 ounces of palladium in the cart when I bought my platinum, but removed them at the last minute, promising to buy them later. Palladium has since doubled.

I remember looking at rhodium bars on bairds and thinking 'next time I will buy an ounce of that'. Next time never came.  

I have not made the same hesitation with platinum. I am well under water on my very modest position, as in the end, I opted for physical metal. Paper would have been far better, but no regrets. Well not with platinum anyway :P  

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Only in Europe and US is Diesel a nasty word remember when there is an over supply of derv the price will plummet and in my estimation there will be a pick up in diesel car sales around the world.  Diesel engines are far more efficient than petrol engines, I have my own opinion on the so called emmitions on diesel cars, it's more to do with making the owner buy a new car than anything else, on the whole diesel engines last longer than petrol engines and there are loads of 10 year and older diesel cars on the road running very well thank you and looking like they will last for many years to come!  That's no good for the car manufacturers!  plus IMO electric and hybrid technology is not as advanced as the government is making it out to be.

There is no shortage of Palladium from mining or recycling the shorage is coming from the supply chain, this does not sit well for a long term investment against other investments as we know and have seen what China has been doing in the commodities markets when it thinks the price is to high. 
 

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Believe it or not, Platinum was around and had uses since before the invention of the catalytic convertor, and will still be around long after it has been consigned to the dustbin of technological history! 

http://www.kitco.com/commentaries/2017-02-07/The-46-Year-Record-of-Platinum-Gold-Ratios.html

 

mickey_20170207_4.png.

 

mickey_20170207_5.png

 

at current ratio is 0.76 (Pt/Au), we are buying at the very extreme end of the distribution

Edited by vand

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7 minutes ago, Cornishfarmer said:

Out of interest when people are buying platinum what is your get out strategy?

do dealers buy if so do they pay vat? And what % do they pay compared to spot? or planning to sell coins to others?

Dealers do buy but they will not pay you the VAT element that you paid.  No idea on what % of spot they pay but no doubt it will vary quite  a bit.  Looking at HGM they seem to only pay ~80%.  Definitely can get close to spot though if you shop around.  Just checked one German dealer and that was ~97% but does vary a little depending on the coin.

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Same theory that applies to gold and silver numismatics, sell to others, dealers are not the way to go. Premium on the smaller coins is easy to recoup in my limited experience selling some, even though they did cost more initially percentage wise. Larger coins not so much, but they were much cheaper to buy initially. Like silver, you need a decent rise before it becomes viable to sell. 

Paper is by far the better way to invest in the metal for liquidity purposes and cost, if holding period is expected to be limited. 

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4 hours ago, KDave said:

Same theory that applies to gold and silver numismatics, sell to others, dealers are not the way to go. Premium on the smaller coins is easy to recoup in my limited experience selling some, even though they did cost more initially percentage wise. Larger coins not so much, but they were much cheaper to buy initially. Like silver, you need a decent rise before it becomes viable to sell. 

Paper is by far the better way to invest in the metal for liquidity purposes and cost, if holding period is expected to be limited. 

Yeah i did a post a long time ago about platinum if holding under 10 years then vaulting is the way to go but if you are in for the long run eg 20 - 30 years then a buying bullion at the gold/ platinum ratio should be ok.  

I myself have a few coins mainly because i believe the ratio is out and will correct.  

One more thing apart from the queens beast all the other platinum coins i have are in very good condition for bullion coins.  I know the philharmonic gets a bad press but the platinum coin i have is in very good condition.  

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15 hours ago, vand said:

Believe it or not, Platinum was around and had uses since before the invention of the catalytic convertor, and will still be around long after it has been consigned to the dustbin of technological history! 

http://www.kitco.com/commentaries/2017-02-07/The-46-Year-Record-of-Platinum-Gold-Ratios.html

 

mickey_20170207_4.png.

 

mickey_20170207_5.png

 

at current ratio is 0.76 (Pt/Au), we are buying at the very extreme end of the distribution

@vandI agree here, a small sensible part of a very long term investment plan should go into platinum.   

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