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I had to laugh at this one. Some idiot from Greece who is selling fake Perth mint coins is trying to big up the price because the fake coin has a mint error LOL

As an aside I have reported all his fakes

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/kookaburra-2015-1oz-silver-clad-coin-with-capsule-/222419564712?hash=item33c93d38a8:g:l9AAAOSw-0xYPtaQ

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@shawy2510 Oh come on, yes I can see that but you know somewhere down the line some unsuspecting newbie will get stung. I'm sure Perth mint will be very happy that he has put clad coin. I sure he purchased those from a legitimate source such as Ali baba who will of course had permission from the Perth Mint design & copyright dept to market this crap.

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I fully understand where you are coming from & I also agree certain newbies are going to get stung but I also see the prices of what he has available at the moment are cheaper than what you pay for an oz of silver so that is where I would think there is something different & to then read the item description.

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There's a deeper issue here that everyone seems to overlook when they see fake tender coins it counterfeit ebay are far too lax on this issue and these fakes never say they are real but if these pass hands say twice and end up in a newly started collectors hands it would/could destroy their interest in collecting if they found out. I understand fakes have existed since the first coins have but ebay has probably escalated this to pandemic levels. If this was or say a normal not miss minted (lol) fake was gifted to a new collector they don't know what was paid for the item so if they are not initially testing there coins it could taint an otherwise clean stack 

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On coin fakes in general.

I'm not sure whether the fact that most modern day "collectable" and bullion coins are only deemed "legal tender" rather than circulating currency makes a difference, but if one country was guilty of counterfeiting another's currency, that would be deemed an act of war.

The fact that China seemingly sanctions such widescale counterfeiting by allowing the production of such things by it's factories surely should be a cause for concern.

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Try listing a counterfeit $100 bill or replica handgun and see how long it takes for a knock on the door.
Why therefore does eBay permit replicas and fakes that have no distinguishing marks to show they are phoney ?

So many fake coins are selling on eBay and I am certain there are "chancers" hoping to flip the fake for a real coin and make a quick buck claiming that they didn't know the coin was a fake. I once bought a 1kilo silver Kookaburra for a great price only to find when it arrived in a DL envelope that it was a 5 gram miniature. The seller listed using a library picture of a real kilo coin and in her text described it as if it was a kilo coin only omitting the size and weight !.
Fortunately I was refunded - price was several £100's so for 5 grams that was a high price to pay.

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8 minutes ago, Danny-boy said:

Trouble is, we are experts.

There are hundreds of other expert groups out there that share the same annoyance at replicas on eBay.

Not sure what eBay can do really, it's not just counterfeit coins that are listed.

Ebay do nothing because they get paid, if they take it down they get nada, hence the reason when things like this are reported they are left to run. Another scheister is a guy called centiles, he's a self slabber/grader and over grader at that, people just don't stop buying from him regardless of how many cherries he receives, glutton for punishment.

The other irk i have is the shill bidders, i've picked up many high profile ebayers shilling their auctions of which i've highlighted, one is a British sovereign dealer and people still buy, fools unto themselves

Edited by shortstack68

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1 minute ago, shortstack68 said:

Ebay do nothing because they get paid, if they take it down they get nada, hence the reason when things like this are reported they are left to run. Another scheuster is a guy called centimes, he's a self slabbed/grader and over grader at that, people just don't stop buying from him regardless of how many cherries he receives, glutton for punishment.

The other irk i have is the shill bidders, i've picked up many high profile ebayers shilling their auctions of which i've highlighted, one is a British sovereign dealer and people still buy, fools unto themselves

What is shilling?

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3 minutes ago, shawy2510 said:

 


Not 100% if this is or not but same 3 bidders to exact same amount on the 3 coins listed.
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/192109001772

 

Shill bidding consists of patterns, you have to study their sales over several months and watch for patterns. For instance one guy who was always selling very high grade and 50% of the time, quite rare coins. He was also paying market value for these from various British auctions, on another forum i use, he was always highlighted because people aren't stupid, penny collectors will bid on rarities in the same auctions as this ebay seller did and they were always asking why he was always getting sometimes up to £1k more than say Spink for instance was getting for the same coin.

At the time, the bidders name wasn't hidden, so i started studying his auctions and found that one guy would immediately bid on a newly listed auction his name was *surrey*coins* the other connector to this practise was that the seller also had stars in his ebay name and so did one other, so i studied them all for a good 3 months and made quite a large list of shilled auctions.

Sometimes he reckoned on that because he had so many watchers that 1 of them would make an end bid and he would push and push the price, several times he pushed too far and had to resist them, generally within 1 hour of the auction ending, people were quite shocked when i threw the whole thing into the open on a forum, he threatened the forum owner with legal action if it wasn't taken down, but he never once threatened me because we both knew he was a robbing bar steward.

There is one other prominent seller on there doing the same thing but i'll keep quiet about names, just don't buy very nice sovereigns is all i'll say

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Shill bidding has always been a problem on ebay and always will be. It's impossible to stamp it out completely, even if ebay made a real effort to do so.

The only way to deal with from a personal perspective is to have a top bid and stick to it. However, there will always be some bidders who must have that rare coin coin whatever the cost.

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bought a half sovereign yesterday on ebay,   looked at the past sales and its fairly obvious that a fair bit of shill bidding has gone on .      ive sent an email saying that im not going to pay out of principle even if it hasn't gone on with this item, am i out of order or correct?

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53 minutes ago, Cornishfarmer said:

bought a half sovereign yesterday on ebay,   looked at the past sales and its fairly obvious that a fair bit of shill bidding has gone on .      ive sent an email saying that im not going to pay out of principle even if it hasn't gone on with this item, am i out of order or correct?

My view  - you’re out of order.

it’s very difficult as the buyer to prove what you say is true and even harder as a seller to dispute it. I sell a lot on eBay and come across a lot of paranoid buyers, who seem to be permanently convinced that you’re up to no good, with no justification. 

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2 minutes ago, Shinus73 said:

My view  - you’re out of order.

it’s very difficult as the buyer to prove what you say is true and even harder as a seller to dispute it. I sell a lot on eBay and come across a lot of paranoid buyers, who seem to be permanently convinced that you’re up to no good, with no justification. 

If the same coin gets sold multiple times to the same bidder leaves feedback then comes up for sale again you have to be suspicious.     He didn’t even change the pictures.    Hard to prove but will leave for eBay to sort out. 

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Agreed, eBay tech/ algorithms in the background pick up shill bidding, as usual, it will be the same IP address/cookies or shared surname or same town/postcode. 

Why be an unpaid detective ?

The buyer can open a none payment alert against you and a few of them under your belt they can and do suspend after a few of these

If you feared shill bidding, I would have bid in the first place.

If you have won it I would say pay for it provided you know youll get it and it is legit 

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@Paul we will have to agree to disagree, this is on the same level as selling fakes to me, they know it’s not allowed but still get away with it.    Ebay hasn’t got the best of reputations for doing the right thing asking as they get their money.   Only worked out the shill bidding after when looked at sold items.     Wasn’t quite on the ball with this one but will be next time.       First item ever that haven’t paid for.    

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1 hour ago, Cornishfarmer said:

bought a half sovereign yesterday on ebay,   looked at the past sales and its fairly obvious that a fair bit of shill bidding has gone on .      ive sent an email saying that im not going to pay out of principle even if it hasn't gone on with this item, am i out of order or correct?

But presumably you bid an amount you wanted to pay?  

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only bid what you are prepared to pay.

i buy other items on ebay, and it can be a right pain in the ass when i am one of only a few bidders and dont reach reserve

thats when you wish someone WOULD shill it up to its true value,so i could buy.

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