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Pete

Minorities Attempt to Ban New £5 Polymer Note

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Vegans and some religious folks are signing a petition to ban the use of the new £5 polymer note because it contains a small amount of animal fat in its recipe.

How many vegans are going to eat the note and how many religious fanatics are likely to wipe their arse with it ?
For the latter use the new note is washable and can be used over and over again ( a well known Aberdonian tip** ).
I am sure certain devout religions who ban pork products wouldn't turn down the offer of a stack of these new notes if they landed outside their places of worship.

Let's hope these objectionable folks don't win - if they want to refuse polymer notes then that's up to them but to insist the Bank of England changes it's recipe is ridiculous.

Picture courtesy of the BBC

** please don't be offended if Scottish - this is a joke from past generations !!

_92733024_fiver_pa.jpg

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Too much time on there hands and it looks like there been listened too as the mint is looking for an alternative product to replace the animal fat - People are gone soft everything seems to be an issue for someone.

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As a 6ft4" 20 stone person I am not "soft" as you suggest, but as a vegetarian I am not keen on the £5 note containing animal product. If an alternative is possible without using bits of animal arse etc then surely that is preferable. Just because we don't like seeing cruelty to animals it doesn't make us objectionable beasts (the final coin in the Queens beast series).

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Uh oh, I'm on the opposite side

I don't think they should be made with animal products

It doesn't matter if you aren't going to eat them, 99.9% of vegans/vegetarians wouldn't buy leather shoes, doesn't matter if it goes in your mouth or not

If people don't want to handle something that contains animal products and there is an alternative (which I'm sure there is), what's the problem?

I think the fact people think popping some animal fat in a bank note is normal, is a bit weird. 

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*shakes head

If I can offer a parallel:

I'm not that keen on drugs yet I handle US$ regularly.

Research presented this weekend reinforced previous findings that 90 percent of paper money circulating in U.S. cities contains traces of cocaine. 

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/14/cocaine.traces.money/

 

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This might be a naive approach, but this 'tallow' substance that is present in the £5 note would still be produced in the same quantities even if the BoE hadn't gone with the product right? I don't think they would go round killing animals for the sole purpose of exactling this stuff as only tiny amounts are present in the note. I would have thought they use it because it's a cheap fatty byproduct of meat slaughter, so even if it's removed from the notes it won't stop it happening.

I could be completely wrong though as most articles I've read are just trying to cause shock value.

I do agree that it's unfair for vegetarians to have to put up with it through and it looks like the BoE have listened and may remove it from future notes:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/38164921?client=safari

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Whilst I can understand this to an extent as it's a passionate subject, if I can make a vaguely linked generalisation, I do think Its very difficult to live your life to what often appear nauseatingly high liberalist standards without taking offence at just about anything.  Can you imagine if they had put Thatcher on a bank note. The moaning would have been cacophonous.

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0.003% of animal based products in the Scottish ones as well.  I wonder why they were told the notes were free from animal products at first but later found out they contain traces?  You'd think a vegetable based oil or mineral oil based product could be used instead.

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57 minutes ago, creative said:

This might be a naive approach, but this 'tallow' substance that is present in the £5 note would still be produced in the same quantities even if the BoE hadn't gone with the product right? I don't think they would go round killing animals for the sole purpose of exactling this stuff as only tiny amounts are present in the note. I would have thought they use it because it's a cheap fatty byproduct of meat slaughter, so even if it's removed from the notes it won't stop it happening.

exactly right, it'll be a useful ingredient that is readily available and cheap.

Do these vegans really think they can go through life without coming into contact with anything that used to be part of an animal?

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1 minute ago, Murph said:

0.003% of animal based products in the Scottish ones as well.  I wonder why they were told the notes were free from animal products at first but later found out they contain traces?  You'd think a vegetable based oil or mineral oil based product could be used instead.

That's one of the problems with modern food processing plants and supply chains, they're all interlinked and cross-contaminated. It would probably be impossible or very expensive to guarantee that there were no traces of animal products in anything.

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5 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

Do these vegans really think they can go through life without coming into contact with anything that used to be part of an animal?

Yes, we try not to. Not through religion for me but from an animal cruelty side. Again, if there is an alternative then what is the problem? From my side its you guys that are blowing this out of proportion and being a bit "precious". Animal cruelty is an emotive subject for many - after all a caring society should be welcomed surely?

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At the end of the day it's a persons choice how they feel about slaughtering animals and how their used and I'm thankful we live in a society of free speech (I'm not thankful that we pay VAT on silver, but that's another topic) and where anyone can express an opinion.

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42 minutes ago, creative said:

At the end of the day it's a persons choice how they feel about slaughtering animals and how their used and I'm thankful we live in a society of free speech (I'm not thankful that we pay VAT on silver, but that's another topic) and where anyone can express an opinion.

Well said, although I will never buy the Lunar series due to their use of animals on the front image ..... I jest.

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3 hours ago, onlyroadtoheaven said:

Yes, we try not to. Not through religion for me but from an animal cruelty side. Again, if there is an alternative then what is the problem? From my side its you guys that are blowing this out of proportion and being a bit "precious". Animal cruelty is an emotive subject for many - after all a caring society should be welcomed surely?

I appreciate your position in not wanting to be part of killing and eating animals but I don't understand the objection to a small amount of some waste product being used in this way. However, I am glad we can have a grown up debate on a subject such as this without throwing insults around. You are clearly a reasonable person but there are many loonies out there who would want to lynch me for expressing such views.

The problem is that we get fed up with minorities seemingly having a disproportionate voice and overly influencing political and social issues. This seems to be another example.

I would be quite happy if the new notes used a substitute to tallow, but it must be realised that this may have a cost. I would assume they used tallow as it was cheap and readily available. Anything else will surely be extracted from oil and that's not exactly eco friendly.

Far better in my mind to use a (probable) waste product from food processing than pumping more oil.

People just need to be reasonable.

As a general observation on vegetarianism. I believe without killing, eating animals and using their skins and furs, mankind would not have survived and evolved into what we are now. You can take that as either a good or a bad thing!:D

 

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Its just another case of virtue signalling and cry-bullying by a tiny minority of the population that are permanently outraged over things that don't really matter.

These kind of unimportant issues that are blown out of proportion are the reason that people voted for Brexit and Donald Trump in the U.S.

The silent majority are pig sick of this kind of nonsense.

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from what ive read vegetable tallow is made from palm oil , which is in pretty much everything these days and is one of the major reasons for deforestation around the world . 

the majority of it is produced under very unethical methods , it contributes to the decline of many species including the orangutans in borneo and while i completely understand the objections of vegans and religions , personally i would rather use the animal fat tallow .

whatever you use someone will have objections. 

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I wonder if such a small amount could come from something like lubrication of some part of the machinery used but then tallow doesn't get used as a lubricant very often any more in my experience.  Mineral oils are cheaper afaik.

I don't know if tallow is that cheap for industrial use although it would be cheap for you or me to pick up some waste fat or suet from the butcher and render it.  When it comes to manufacturing on an industrial scale mineral oils may be as cheap or cheaper. Tallow makes nice soap though.

Wouldn't it be interesting if the changed something about the notes so you could tell if they had tallow and that made the early tallow containing ones more rare. 

Maybe the tallow was included so they slipped out of our Aberdonian hands in the shop and saved the assistant fighting so long with us for the money, Pete?

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I take offence about the animal cruelty side.   As a farmer I know my animals are treated with great respect and in conditions a lot of humans don't enjoy.     I don't mind it being an ethical decision but not cruelty.        I'd be more worried about coca or coffee production and how people are treated rather than how animals in the uk are treated 

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