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https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/apr/28/proportion-home-owners-halves-millennials

I don't like the guardian but they have the numbers for today and the 1980's as we have been discussing.

It doesn't really matter if this is driven by economics, low wages, expensive phones (:D), the result will be political change if it continues for long enough. Its a growing block of votes that will just become too irresistible for politicians to exploit. 

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2 hours ago, Lowlow said:

 

So much of this stuff is about people's weird expectations about what they're "supposed" to have, especially when they marry.

 

And I think that brings us back whole circle to the original topic of retirement, and most peoples' unrealistic expectations thereof!

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On 5/3/2018 at 10:18, vand said:

 

"A person on the UK average salary now needs to build up a pension pot of over £300,000 to be able to maintain their current lifestyle in retirement, new analysis has shown.

The state pension, at £691 a month, would therefore need to be topped up by £809 per month from private and workplace pensions to hit such a goal. "

 

Or, to put this another way... current retirees are gifted a £256k pension in unfunded liabilities. No wonder this country is so f£$^&d! 

Does that sound affordable to you? Default is guaranteed. Keep stacking my friends.

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How many have those sums saved for retirement very few I imagine.

Option 1 as I see it for my situation is save enough to retire, pay off the house, diversify assets and pay my own way. Option 2 is work until I'm dead like everyone else will be doing. It's not mathematically possible to pay me the promised pension I am supposed to be funding through national insurance contributions. Just not going to happen in its current form.

If I could stop paying NI I would. I would like to pay for my own healthcare insurance, it's cheaper per month for my whole family than what I alone pay in NI, nevermind the missus contributions but it's daft to pay twice even though I would get better quality by paying. In reality NI is just income tax and will never change. Even after a default we will still be taxed the same if not more I guarantee it. 

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8 hours ago, KDave said:

If I could stop paying NI I would. I would like to pay for my own healthcare insurance

I think you are confusing two different things here. In the UK, health care is paid for out of general taxation. National insurance pays for pensions, sick pay and benefits. National insurance is a ponzi scheme: the money you pay in is immediately disbursed to recipients of the benefits. In the private sector this would be illegal, but hey, we're the government, so there.

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1 hour ago, Bumble said:

I think you are confusing two different things here. In the UK, health care is paid for out of general taxation. National insurance pays for pensions, sick pay and benefits. National insurance is a ponzi scheme: the money you pay in is immediately disbursed to recipients of the benefits. In the private sector this would be illegal, but hey, we're the government, so there.

I admit I know very little about how the government says it manages taxation. Isn't it all just central government taxation? Road tax goes to central government. NI goes to central government. Income tax goes to central government. If it all goes to the government then road tax is used to pay benefits just as NI is used to pay for roads. All one pot needing a borrowing top up due to the monthly deficit, for future me to pay off with more taxes to service the interest. If the whole show is really run as a ponzi scheme then its much worse than I thought :lol:

At least when I pay council tax I know where it goes and what I can expect back - 90% goes to plug the deficit in the final salary pension fund and 10% goes on emptying the bins once every two months (£25 extra for garden waste though - the council pension deficit is much worse than we all thought too) :P

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Yes, sort of. In the UK, road tax, along with other particular taxes such as those on alcohol, tobacco, fuel, etc., all go into the general taxation pot. One might well argue that national insurance is just tax under another name, but it is hypothecated towards the payment of pensions and benefits. One consequence is that while you can set charitable donations against income tax, you cannot set them against NI. Another is that pensions are subject to income tax, but not to NI.

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Tax is tax no matter what guise it comes under or how it is dressed up. 

I am a small government/low tax advocate in general, but I think that if you are going to have taxes they generally need to all be harmonised to the same rate. Otherwise, what happens over time is that capital always figures out what the most tax-efficient place is to park itself, so you get all sort of complex loopholes developing and a bloated, overcomplicated tax/legal system that nobody really understands, and vast resources and economic activity are devoted to this which could be better deployed elsewhere.

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