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Platinum


Pipers

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This is just an opinion do your own research!

 

Platinum is in a big bear market and has dropped 40% and at one point 45% from its top.  The top on platinum was achieved IMO by restriction of supply because of bad industrial relations with the work force and I have no doubt there is more down side! 

 

Glencore having now sold there interest in South Africa Platinum mines because of cost ( reading between the lines cost plus industrial relations and police brutality caught on TV) and Anglo are getting out too.  

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-18/glencore-to-shut-eland-platinum-mine-in-south-africa-union-says

 

http://www.mining.com/sibanye-confirms-talks-with-anglo-over-platinum-mines-for-sale/

 

How to buy platinum to make money in the long term,  the first thing is timing, SA looks like its putting jobs before world demand so there could be excessive supply (I am just guessing here)  if this is true then the price of platinum will fall further.  

 

In the UK buying Platinum is expensive the premiums are excessive at around 8-10% then there is VAT of 20% to add on top, a rip off for an financial investment bar or coin.

 

I am not advertising Goldmoney!

 

If you wanted to get yourself ready to invest in platinum when the price falls to a level that you are happy with to make a long term investment there is 4 choices I have found,

 

1 paper Platinum - not what we want

2 buy platinum bars and coins with the premium -  this is to expensive and an investor may never get there money back.

3 Goldcore unallocated -  to me this is the same as paper platinum

4Goldmoney Allocated-  You own the metal and its held in a vault

5 Bullion Vault do not offer Platinum  

 

 

As anyone can see the 2 options to anyone in the UK are buying the bars coins or using a company like Goldmoney.  

 

These are the figures for a purchase of 1 ounce of Platinum at Goldmoney at a buy price of £650 this is to make it easy for me to work out.

 

Example

 

Buy  1 ounce platinum           £650

 

Charge    4.67%                    £680.35.5

 

Lomis Vault HK

 

 @ 0.39 for 10 years Total     £707

 

Then sell cost of 0.5%          £710  

 

As you can see the cost is still £60 but if anyone wants to take a serious look when the bear market comes to an end the I think it maybe worth a go for a few ounces.   

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The main issue with platinum is that it is primarily an industrial metal; like palladium it is used in catalytic converters in car exhausts. As such, it is caught up in the general fall in industrial commodity prices because of the ongoing recession. If you buy platinum or palladium you are basically betting on a general worldwide recovery, or possibly China passing legislation to require Chinese cars to have catalytic converters. I don't like the look of either of these bets at the moment. Silver is similar, because again it is primarily an industrial metal - more than 50% of production is consumed industrially. Although it sounds perverse, the reason I like gold is precisely because it has so few industrial uses. This means it is capable of acting as a monetary metal and filling the role of a reserve asset, because its price can float free of everything else without having a damaging inflationary effect on industry.

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i read an article on sharps pixley a couple of weeks back ( i carnt find it now ) that they have found a cheaper and easier way of making cats without using platinum

 

something to do with microwaves and bonding things . early stages i think but how would that affect the price of platinum later down the line  if it was not used in cats any more  

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  • 10 months later...

There is a huge shortage in variety of platinum coins compared to a few years back, that surely says something?? I think it's worth a small punt at current prices.

I absolutely adore the 1oz Canada mint rainbow trout they did, but just too pricey to get over here.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Platinum just $164oz behind Gold now and looking to reverse the ratio count in about 4 weeks from Au:Pt to Pt:Au. First 3 days of the week $30oz gained.

This is the Precious Metal to be buying not Gold and I'd say all the Youtube sellers are buying the stuff and offloading their Gold but not telling you that!

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4 minutes ago, shemyaza said:

Platinum just $164oz behind Gold now and looking to reverse the ratio count in about 4 weeks from Au:Pt to Pt:Au. First 3 days of the week $30oz gained.

This is the Precious Metal to be buying not Gold and I'd say all the Youtube sellers are buying the stuff and offloading their Gold but not telling you that!

Where do you get platinum when you're in the UK without VAT? 

That's the problem I think for most of us 

Help thread for members new to silver/gold stacking/collecting

The Money Printing Myth the Fed can't and don't money print - Deflation ahead, not inflation 

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My assumption uses the Ratio leverage that Platinum has on trading into Gold in later years and if CGT is triggered I have the VAT cost as a CGT offset in the bag as the Gold to Platinum ratio continues its inevitable run to 1 then lower. I do intend to use that Platinum to trade into Gold later and use the ratio leverage that looks historically naturally inclined to very strong Platinum. It's way out there thinking but it's a ratio buy for ounce profit not cash profit.

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I have a small amount of platinum coins bought last December. It seems to have been a decent low, or near enough, for an amateur. I am hoping that the numismatic element will survive any potential new technology, should/when it comes along. Even if there is a glut around  of cheap platinum coins in future, the coins themselves bought recently would hopefully hold their desirability and value due to rarity by comparison.

Either way, it is currently a straghtforward profitable purchase just on the material element alone. It will be interesting to see how the technology develops.

http://www.rsc.org/periodic-table/element/78/platinum

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Steve, did you know you may well be right, that mine I believe opening via Anglo-American adds 1 tonne of production per annum which would glut the world to 211 tonnes of Globally Mined Platinum per year instead of 210 tonnes. I'll let everyone take in that low tonnage compared to 3,900 metric tonnes of annual Gold Mining Production. Vedanta's interest comes at a critical moment in attempting to buy Anglo-American.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Nice one December looks to have been the right time to be buying any precious metal. What about this recent pullback it has been quite pronounced compared to gold and silver and even now it is some way from its yearly high unlike the other two metals. 

Why might the price movements be so pronounced compared to the other precious metals I wonder? Does a small market for platinum add to the volatility perhaps? Or is it more a fundamental concern about how the metal will react to a recession, demand being primarily from jewelry/industrial?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have some Platinum and Palladium and bought some of it near but not exactly at, the very low. I don't think its really tradeable as the margin to buy is big cf gold especially, but from an interest point of view I like having something rare and pure. Slightly unhinged, my kids think so and when I said they might inherit it they both said 'why' 

I have been trying to think what to do with it so any ideas welcome. I did do a 'picture' of ounce bars of Pt/Pd/Au/Rh as a present for a friend but thats the extent so far. 

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I agree people talking about trading platinum for gold are forgetting the spread between the two metals (all on the platinum side). Its not tradeable in that sense. Personally my exit plan is to sell the metal when it is trading at historical ratio with gold again, and look for alternative assets at that point. I am sure this is easier said than done though - its lovely stuff and nice to have possession of something so rare.

If you believe the ratios mean anything, platinum is undervalued relative to gold historically (only a few times in history has this happened). If this corrects to historic 'norms' along with gold rising, you should expect some decent gains in platinum. Alternatively, if gold falls to correct the ratio, platinum will logically not fall as much IF historic norms correct, which they should, but nothing is guaranteed. Maybe its different this time! ;)

If everything falls together, well then its probably recession time again and there are not many assets that will do well. This is also likely imo.

As for what to do with your metal - take a few pictures and post them on here please :)

Then either put them away and forget about them for a few years, or sell up. Who knows which is the right answer.

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Thanks Kdave, I can put them away or display them. They are rare and pure and a member of a very exclusive part of the periodic table. I am a chemist, or was. I won't sell them though I don't think. In theory some of the pieces have been good investments but that is mainly down to a lower £/$ since brexit vote. In the long term I think metals will increase as an asset class. And I have only bought as a second-owner from dealers or ebay and of course the SilverForum. 

I'll take some pictures in the morning and post. 

CB

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Bullionboy, 

The buying bit is easy. Not sure about Vancouver Exchange as I am in UK. Here many dealers, though not all, will offer Pt bars of various sizes. The challenge is twofold in making cash or a beneficial exit strategy. Here, and again, I don't know about Canada, our Value Added Tax, VAT, adds 20% to the base price of the bar. Not the spot price. The dealer price. In addition, smaller bars of any variety and especially the non-gold ones has a bigger margin over the spot price. Partly because demand is small and the dealer might be making one-off orders. Also, the smaller bars have the same transport, packaging and registration costs. 

So its not easy. I have been buying some Pt and Pd but mainly because the physical metal interests me and the idea of something pure and rare. I don't trade but at some stage there may need to be an exit. I have no idea how best to sell, but so far I have been a purchaser on the Silver Forum, and becoming a seller would certainly be one route. The items that are keenly priced do sell quickly and you will see users give feedback on suggested costings. 

I hope you can make it work if thats your plan. 

CB

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Anyone buying into this recent dip? Interesting also that palladium seemed fairly resistant to the price drop, until yesterday anyway. I am tempted to buy some platinum 1 ounces, in the US?. Agree that when the ratio to gold is right that switching them to gold is an exit plan...or I might just keep them and admire them! 

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