Why are Some Stackers Selling Silver Now ?

[Pete]

I know there could be circumstances that are forcing a fire sale with some people out there facing unexpected bills or maybe landed on hard times, but if not, why would anyone on this forum really be interested in selling silver ( or gold ) at the current lows ?

 

Most of us ( I honestly believe ) are riding the current lows in the expectation of some short term recovery followed by we hope a steady climb.

A few stackers might have found a bargain and can sell a few coins profitably but unlikely to be making much return.

As silver is painfully low at the moment I find it difficult to understand why anyone would choose to sell unless getting out to cut losses - but that's taking a view that there are more falls to come but no-one can predict that.

 

It would be interesting to hear from fellow forum members as to their thoughts on this topic.

[DRooster]

If I had a load of PM (more than enough) and was convinced the price was on a steady downward slope and wasn't looking for very long term holding I might sell stock which I'd aquired cheaply.

I guess.

[HelpingHands]

I sold some duplicate numi stuff to buy more bullion type coins to increase ounces. I'm pretty sure that the 9s is the market bottom.

[SilverPirate]

I sold some silver and re-bought from Silver to Go, i am sitting on some of my sale money waiting for Lunar 1oz monkeys,But how i have not bought two full sovereigns i don't know.I need to buy the silver to get my average back down as i had some bad sales on E-bay,but i am tempted to buy the sovereigns as the silver was a pain in the rear to sell.

[motorbikez]

I've done the opposite, over the last couple of months I've sold a couple of 1oz krugers & bought silver.

[Danny-boy]

I have sold most of my silver over the last few months, and bought into gold - both are cheap right now in my opinion.

[KDave]

I have sold some silver recently to buy more gold. So in my mind I just swapped it as the prices of both have fallen. 

 

I think there is too much upside potential for both metals in comparison to other possible holdings which have far more downside (property, equities and bonds). Personally, selling this part of my wealth now to chase other opportunities does not make sense.

 

Obviously if I needed the cash and had to sell then that is another story.

[HighlandTiger]

I'm selling all my silver proofs and semi numis currently. (It's a slow process, but I'm in no rush). On the basis that the spot price doesn't really affect the value of these coins as much as bullion. The money raised will be converted into mega cheap allocated silver. (selling 10 x 1oz ASE proofs recently allowed me to buy 33 ounces of allocated silver)

 

Eventually I want to be out of physical silver completely, I'm afraid the laborious and time consuming exit strategy required for physical silver, (along with safe storage of the coins) just doesn't fit in with my future plans. Although investing in silver via the VAT free allocated route is still an important part of my investment strategies. I'm not one of the tinfoil hat brigade, and I'm not expecting the banks to collapse, Bitcoin to rule the world, the apocalypse and the second coming, alien invasion, sunspots, or triffid attacks. So holding physical metals is not as important to me as it is to others.

[SilverPirate]

I'm selling all my silver proofs and semi numis currently. (It's a slow process, but I'm in no rush). On the basis that the spot price doesn't really affect the value of these coins as much as bullion. The money raised will be converted into mega cheap allocated silver. (selling 10 x 1oz ASE proofs recently allowed me to buy 33 ounces of allocated silver)

 

Eventually I want to be out of physical silver completely, I'm afraid the laborious and time consuming exit strategy required for physical silver, (along with safe storage of the coins) just doesn't fit in with my future plans. Although investing in silver via the VAT free allocated route is still an important part of my investment strategies. I'm not one of the tinfoil hat brigade, and I'm not expecting the banks to collapse, Bitcoin to rule the world, the apocalypse and the second coming, alien invasion, sunspots, or triffid attacks. So holding physical metals is not as important to me as it is to others.

Where do you invest in allocated silver and what are the charges HT? 

[KDave]

 I'm not one of the tinfoil hat brigade, and I'm not expecting the banks to collapse, Bitcoin to rule the world, the apocalypse and the second coming, alien invasion, sunspots, or triffid attacks. So holding physical metals is not as important to me as it is to others.

You missed out zombie apocalypse 

 

I buy physical to remove third party risk due to the length of time I am investing. If I was going to sell in a few years I would consider if the fees and additional risk are worth the convenience of having a company look after the metal for me. In my mind, over a long time frame the additional cost and risk of potential scandal, default or bankruptcy of a bullion vault is not worth it when I can hold it myself for no additional cost. Over cautious perhaps, but I think in my case, it is better to be tin foil hatted than sorry 

[HighlandTiger]

Where do you invest in allocated silver and what are the charges HT? 

 

 

I use Bullionvault, I usually buy at spot give or take a penny or two. Transaction fees is 0.5% on each trade. And storage fees is 0.48% a year on silver, with a monthly minimum of $8. Which is about £5 or so. So the max I'll pay in storage fees in a year is £60. I buy about 30 ounces of silver a month, so over a year my storage fees will mean a premium of about 17p an ounce. However as my holdings increase my premiums, as a percentage decrease

 

Gold is also 0.5% per trade, but storage fees are 0.12% per year with a minimum of $4 (£2.50) per month.

 

If I keep my silver for 20 years at 0.48% storage per year, that equates to a premium of less than 10%. Considering the best STG can do on a coin is about 22%-25%, I'm more than happy for someone else to look after my silver for less than I can buy and look after physical silver myself.

 

oh, and I can sell and get my cash in my bank within a couple of hours

 

Ticks all the boxes I want in an "investment"

[HighlandTiger]

default or bankruptcy of a bullion vault is not worth it when I can hold it myself for no additional cost. Over cautious perhaps, but I think in my case, it is better to be tin foil hatted than sorry 

 

Bullion Vault don't actually store or hold any PM's, so if they go bust, it wouldn't affect the PM's you own. My bullion is stored in the London Vault of Loomis International

 

Loomis International are independent professional bullion market vault operators and LBMA security transport companies. They have been selected by BullionVault to look after BullionVault gold and silver.

Loomis International, originally Via Mat International before a brand and company name change in March 2015, operates widely in North and South America, Europe and the Far East.  In their home country of Switzerland they dominate the business of physical assets custody and transportation.  They are the trusted carrier of Swiss banknotes, as they travel between the central bank and the various branches of the Swiss banking industry.

[HighlandTiger]

Over cautious perhaps, but I think in my case, it is better to be tin foil hatted than sorry 

 

Are you fully insured for theft of your PM's?

[SilverPirate]

My stack is to small to use allocated,thanks for the reply HT.

[KDave]

Are you fully insured for theft of your PM's?

No I have no separate insurance. Can you insure PM's without giving away their value and location to a third party? Probably not.

 

I accept a break in and theft is possible, but I have taken precautions and have made the risk personally acceptable when balanced against the alternative on the time frame I am investing in. 

[HighlandTiger]

No I have no separate insurance. Can you insure PM's without giving away their value and location to a third party? Probably not.

 

I accept a break in and theft is possible, but I have taken precautions and have made the risk personally acceptable when balanced against the alternative on the time frame I am investing in. 

 

How about a fire?. As someone who has suffered through a house fire (arson, but luckily the fire brigade were brilliant and got everyone out safely), and lost around £10k-£15k worth of uninsured collectibles, I'm always wondering about those what if's

 

I don't intend to lose my investments again, through either fire, theft, or flood (The few items that were saved from the fire were stored in some garages, and a year later were all ruined in a flood of over 4 feet..............God knows how many black cats I must have run over  ), which Is why I'm leaning more towards insured allocated pm's

[watchesandwhisky]

I have sold a fair bit recently, but also bought more gold, where as before I had about 480 oz of silver and 3 sovereigns, i now have roughly 350 oz of silver and 12 sovereigns. 

 

Its mainly due to a change in tactics, but also I have been not stacking as much as I have been making the money work in other areas.

[KDave]

How about a fire?. As someone who has suffered through a house fire (arson, but luckily the fire brigade were brilliant and got everyone out safely), and lost around £10k-£15k worth of uninsured collectibles, I'm always wondering about those what if's

 

I don't intend to lose my investments again, through either fire, theft, or flood (The few items that were saved from the fire were stored in some garages, and a year later were all ruined in a flood of over 4 feet..............God knows how many black cats I must have run over  ), which Is why I'm leaning more towards insured allocated pm's

I am sorry to hear about that loss HT. That really sucks.  

 

I guess this is why perception of risk is a fairly personal thing - influenced by past experience and knowledge. This goes part way to explaining why I wish to hold physical and others do not.

 

You have highlighted to me something I need to look at again to be honest. Fire is not something I have prepared for properly.

[HawkHybrid]

I use Bullionvault, I usually buy at spot give or take a penny or two. Transaction fees is 0.5% on each trade. And storage fees is 0.48% a year on silver, with a monthly minimum of $8. Which is about £5 or so. So the max I'll pay in storage fees in a year is £60. I buy about 30 ounces of silver a month, so over a year my storage fees will mean a premium of about 17p an ounce. However as my holdings increase my premiums, as a percentage decrease

 

Gold is also 0.5% per trade, but storage fees are 0.12% per year with a minimum of $4 (£2.50) per month.

 

If I keep my silver for 20 years at 0.48% storage per year, that equates to a premium of less than 10%. Considering the best STG can do on a coin is about 22%-25%, I'm more than happy for someone else to look after my silver for less than I can buy and look after physical silver myself.

 

oh, and I can sell and get my cash in my bank within a couple of hours

 

Ticks all the boxes I want in an "investment"

 

you need ~£10k or ~3yrs worth at your current

buy rate to hit that 0.48%. also you are not

comparing like for like. each year you erode your

wealth by 0.48% which will never be returned to

you. owners of physical might be able to get back

some of the premium paid (depending on the coin)

when they come to sell.

going this route really kills the fun in buying pm's.

how does it differ from buying via silver etf?

 

I also believe it's not the best time to be selling 

 

HH

[HighlandTiger]

you need ~£10k or ~3yrs worth at your current

buy rate to hit that 0.48%. also you are not

comparing like for like. each year you erode your

wealth by 0.48% which will never be returned to

you.

 

Ok, lets compare the 0.48%, per year that erodes my wealth. That will only come into play if Pm prices are static or drop lower than the prices I paid for them. But still compares favourably to the 20% VAT on silver in the UK that you will never get back. Or the 22% premium you pay with STG.

 

owners of physical might be able to get back

some of the premium paid (depending on the coin)

when they come to sell.

 

Lets run a few numbers here. Today, I can buy 25.7 oz of silver for £256.15 allocated, or 20oz (noahs ark) from STG for £256.15 delivered, or .28.4% premium over spot.

 

If Silver goes to £20 an ounce. I can sell my allocated silver for £514 and get my £258 profit in the bank in hours. In order for you to get £258 profit from the 20 noahs ark, You will have to sell for £514.15 + £7.50 delivery costs = £520, (or £26.00 a coin), if you can manage to sell on a free forum. Which is a premium over spot of around 30%. But If you go the ebay route, which is most likely going to be your main access to potential buyers, you will need to sell for around £605 cover for fees etc, or £30.25 which is 51% premium over spot.

 

Currently Ebay completed selling prices on Noahs arks  are about 50% premium over spot, so it is perfectly do-able to make exactly the same amount of profit, as with the allocated. The difference is, whilst you are putting up listings, packing up coins for shipping, and keeping fingers crossed you are not scammed, I've already returned home after a weeks holiday on the beach after spending my profits. 

 

It's horses for courses, I just prefer the sprinters rather than the long distance steeple chasers.

 

Oh yes, another point I forgot to make. The silver high in 2011 of £28.18 occurred for just a few days. 10 days before it was £26.35, 10 days after it was £20.97. With allocated silver, I could theoretically sell at that high. Remembering that 10 days later it had dropped by 25%. No matter how quick you are with coin sales you will never have a long enough window to sell at an equivalent high, before the price drops like stone and coin prices plummet as everyone sells in a panic. Allocated silver allows you to play the minute fluctuations and short time periods in price movements, and if you are sharp enough you can also play the Gold silver ratio movements. I have only just started to put into action my GSR plans, and already by selling silver when the GSR drops and buying gold, and then selling that gold back into silver when the GSR rises, I have added almost a full ounce of silver to my stack for free, even with the small amounts I'm testing the waters with at the moment 

[HawkHybrid]

 

Ok, lets compare the 0.48%, per year that erodes my wealth. That will only come into play if Pm prices are static or drop lower than the prices I paid for them. But still compares favourably to the 20% VAT on silver in the UK that you will never get back. Or the 22% premium you pay with STG.

 

if your crystal ball works perfectly then fluctuating prices are never

a problem. 

 

with the way it's set up, it's just like trading.

 

HH

[Agpanda]

Selling off some semi numis so I can afford some collectible pandas

These are a bit pricey tho So I need to free some fiat.

[morezone]

Selling off some semi numis so I can afford some collectible pandas

These are a bit pricey tho So I need to free some fiat.

Of the yellow variety like to 2000 you've been eyeing up?

[HighlandTiger]

 

with the way it's set up, it's just like trading.

 

 

 

I don't have a problem with that. I'm not into Pm's so I can gaze lovingly at pretty silver coins with pictures of cuddly animals on them every night. Pm's to me are a means to an end. The end being a big money pot, which allows me to stop working and still live a nice life.  

 

I'm not really interested in trading on the stock market, as that is only a posh version of Betfair. I like PM's, and especially working the GSR, because it is simple, easy to follow, and even easier to get free gold and silver. 

 

[realbluegold]

I have to confess that I'm becoming a collector...... and I do like to look at the shinny pieces