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silenceissilver

Eagle Real or Fake?

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Apart from modern bullion this is my first American gold, so I'm not very experienced at how they are supposed to look.

The measured weight is 16.76g which seems a bit high but of course it's a cheap scale.

I made a specific gravity test and the result must be wrong or the coin a fake, the density is 16.2g/cm3 which is way beyond what is should be. So actually, it must be a fake. It should be ca 17.5. Even for a cheap scale it's too far off, in my opinon.

I was quite glad I could pick it up today, after I had ordered it from bullion by post last Friday.

Coins you get from them should be fine in theory but you can never exclude a fake slipping through, particularily now with the staff probably doing overhours.

What do you think, judging from the photo?

It's really anoying having to send it back in the current situation.

 

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14 minutes ago, JunkBond said:

Hard to tell from the photos, they are a bit blurry.

I have a few of these and I have to say the portrait looks a bit odd around the mouth.

Here is a couple of mine for you to compare. 👍

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Thank you!

I have changed the mode of my camera and made more photos, it should be less blurry, now.

 

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The last time I wondered if my SG result was correct and the coin maybe not a fake, it turned out the coin was indeed a fake. That was a 14K half Sovereign. Thus I'm pretty sure, it's indeed showing the coin is a fake, again.

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55 minutes ago, JunkBond said:

I have a few of these and I have to say the portrait looks a bit odd around the mouth.

Agree with @JunkBond, the mouth doesn’t look quite right and the chin area looks a bit too pronounced...just my visual opinion. Good luck with results...would recommend return for peace of mind, just recent bad timing adds another factor for return.

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1 hour ago, silenceissilver said:

The last time I wondered if my SG result was correct and the coin maybe not a fake, it turned out the coin was indeed a fake. That was a 14K half Sovereign. Thus I'm pretty sure, it's indeed showing the coin is a fake, again.

Might be worth doing an SG test on a coin that you know is genuine and seeing if your results match the coin. This would confirm that your methods are fine 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Midasfrog said:

Might be worth doing an SG test on a coin that you know is genuine and seeing if your results match the coin. This would confirm that your methods are fine 

I have used the same test with the same equipment in the past, on full and half sovereigns and it was accurate. As a matter of fact I have a sigma analytics metal verifier pro. However, for a while now it has shown to be fine on the surface but not through the whole coin, for every coin, from different sources and for coins it had validated as real in the past. That's also really annoying. I've seen some existing and newly developed testers on a German page... however given the money I spent for the sigma, I don't want to spend more money on testing equipment. I don't want to exclude the possibility that I made a mistake somewhere, however, using it is straight forward and I have not changed how I use it. Now, i bought it from the US and it took ages to arrive because customs had it lying around in a corner for weeks. 

Edited by silenceissilver

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I have a couple of these...if it is not genuine then it is a very good copy.  
 

I think there were around 3.8 million minted, so not rare and not worth faking because of scarcity I think.  
 

But I do agree with @JunkBond about the chin in particular. I use the PCGS CoinFacts as a reference point for photos, by the way.  Very useful!

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Buying gold coins outside the normal range of modern bullion coins can be a minefield, especially if you venture into the numismatic territory because that’s the field where forgeries frequently turn up. You have to be really clued up about these older coins and buy from reputable dealers. Yes, you are right to err on the side of caution. I’m the most cautious collector you can ever encounter who buys numismatic coins from Baldwin’s despite the fact that BullionByPost has never inadvertently stiffed me on bullion coins.

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30 minutes ago, Serendipity said:

Buying gold coins outside the normal range of modern bullion coins can be a minefield, especially if you venture into the numismatic territory because that’s the field where forgeries frequently turn up.

I really like the half ounce coins but with modern bullion they seem to be much less liquid than the full and quarter ounces. I have double sovereigns but I don't like them so much, much less than the full sovereigns. I can't explain why. Thus I thought I might get into the eagles, a bit.

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11 hours ago, Serendipity said:

Buying gold coins outside the normal range of modern bullion coins can be a minefield, especially if you venture into the numismatic territory because that’s the field where forgeries frequently turn up. You have to be really clued up about these older coins and buy from reputable dealers. Yes, you are right to err on the side of caution. I’m the most cautious collector you can ever encounter who buys numismatic coins from Baldwin’s despite the fact that BullionByPost has never inadvertently stiffed me on bullion coins.

One would think bullion by post are reputable?

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12 hours ago, silenceissilver said:

I really like the half ounce coins

Same here, I have $10 eagles, double sovs, half krug, 20 pesos. I think they are a great sized coin and a bit overlooked.

I realise most are not quite half ounce of fine gold. 😂

You definitely need one of these. 😍

 

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So far I have very few (roughly) half ounce coins but Ill definitely expand on them, including Indian head coins. Are modern bullion half ounce coins as easy to sell as full and quarter ounce ones, in your experience in case you have sold some of them?

5 minutes ago, JunkBond said:

Same here, I have $10 eagles, double sovs, half krug, 20 pesos. I think they are a great sized coin and a bit overlooked.

I realise most are not quite half ounce of fine gold. 😂

You definitely need one of these. 😍

 

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I'll definitely get some of them as well. 

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I have not sold any. Obviously it depends on price and exit strategy.

Sending them off to HGM is nice and easy, especially if you are already a few hundred in profit.

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Posted (edited)

I have bought most of my gold before the rise last summer so I'm also in profit. Of course as I continue to buy it gets less percentage wise, unless gold rises even more.

Edited by silenceissilver

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3 hours ago, JunkBond said:

Same here, I have $10 eagles, double sovs, half krug, 20 pesos. I think they are a great sized coin and a bit overlooked.

I realise most are not quite half ounce of fine gold. 😂

You definitely need one of these. 😍

 

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Great coin @JunkBond I tried to find a nice one when I was last in the US but there are not so many of them around even though they are not rare!  They seem to be quite pricey when offered in the UK

Best

Dicker

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Posted (edited)

Thanks everyone for your contribution. It's not a fake, after all!

I sent the guys from Sigma Metalytics an email, they were very helpful, answered straight away, from the US, one employee sent me his number, I called him and then they sent me a not listed youtube link for customers.

So what was wrong with my Sigma Metalytics Percious Metal Verifier Pro is that it hadn't been calibrated for too long. There are two methods and I had only ever used one. There is also a calibration disk that is attached to the machine and I managed to never notice it.

Now, that leaves me with the question of course, how could I be so far off with my specific gravity test? The only explanation is that it too would need to be recalibrated, because the same scale did deliver proper results a bit more than a year ago, for SG tests. Actually I have weights for that, it might not be possible to recalibrate this cheap scale properly but I'll give it a shot.

So the lessons learned for everyone who wants to do a SG test - if you don't recalibrate your scale once in a while, your test results will be useless.

I really feel relieved it's not a fake!

Edited by silenceissilver

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Not sure if this helps at all but I recently received some replica fake gold coins as I liked the designs. I'm new to gold and I don't think I'd know the difference between real and fake ones. 

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