Buy/ sell silver price vs spot in the UK

[Tarsal]

Hi guys this is my first post and sorry if its been asked before... haven’t seen a good explanation so far.

What are the typical buy or sell prices of silver relative to spot in the UK?

I understand VAT bumps up the purchase cost from businesses but how much does this bump the resale cost? Would have thought individual collectors of bullion would be able to buy and sell at roughly the same price (over spot) as they aren’t lumped with VAT.

Id be much more willing to buy silver over spot if I knew I could sell it over spot too...

[sixgun]

Look at the prices advertised on the forum selling section and look at sold for prices on ebay. Remember you will pay the paypal and ebay fees which are collectively about 13 - 14%.
Many members buy silver from Europe - there is the group buy with @BackyardBullion - you can also buy as an individual from the likes of https://goldsilver.be https://Europeanmint.com and you ca find a lot of German dealers through https://gold.de

You won't be able to see the most recent items on the selling section as you are not a premium member but you will be able to see older items and some of the previous sales if the sellers still have the prices up.

[dollarydoos]

Individual collectors will generally be willing to buy from you for a bit less than what they'd have to pay elsewhere, depending on what discount they expect given the risk involved in buying from someone who isn't a reputable seller (yet). So it depends on what their alternatives are.

Despite apparently also sometimes falling under some sort of margin scheme, silver coins seem to be universally more expensive in the UK because of VAT. The only country in Europe I am aware of that doesn't apply any VAT on coins is Estonia, where europeanmint.com is seated. They typically have some very cheap common bullion coins, but some rarer stuff can be a bit expensive, and shipment costs are quite high. Overall, for my purchase behaviour, I find that I'm usually best off buying from German and Dutch dealers (but I live in the Netherlands, so shipping possibilities and costs may vary) or private sellers. In any case, I know that both Dutch and German dealers apply the margin scheme, making it considerably cheaper than applying VAT to the full price.

When you sell to individuals, the upper limit of what you can expect depends on the additional costs for the buyer and the cheapest option the buyer has elsewhere. If you are in the UK and want to sell as a private individual to another private individual in the UK, take into account what the other options of your buyer are. As a private seller you typically won't have to charge VAT (or rather, your price can include the VAT component of professional dealers which your buyer would otherwise buy from, but you get to keep it rather than having to pass it on to the government). Shipping costs within the UK are probably cheaper than what sellers from the rest of Europe can offer for shipping to the UK, so that's an advantage. If you sell on a platform that charges substiantial fees, you may lose quite a lot to that. If you sell on a forum like this, you won't have to pay fees, but the audience is probably smaller than on ebay and will tend to be well informed about the alternatives. 

Also take into account the time and effort to sell, say, 100 coins to 50 different buyers. You may or may not care about that. When you sell to a professional coin dealer, the dealer will just have to charge VAT again (on the total price or at least on the margin) when reselling, so that will reduce the amount they can offer you. Generally, with professional dealers, the spread between buying and selling is far higher for silver than for gold.

[StevenDS]

1 hour ago, dollarydoos said:

The only country in Europe I am aware of that doesn't apply any VAT on coins is Estonia, where europeanmint.com is seated.

No VAT is charged in any EU country, unless maybe they are not part of the fiscal union, on silver bullion coins. Coins meaning silver bullion coins with a monetary value of a sovereign nation. So it's certainly not limited to European Mint.

You only pay VAT on silver in EU on bars, rounds and medallions. 

[dollarydoos]

2 minutes ago, StevenDS said:

No VAT is charged in any EU country, unless maybe they are not part of the fiscal union, on silver bullion coins.

That's simply not true. I know for a fact that there is VAT on silver coins in Germany and the Netherlands, and am fairly sure it's the same in most other Eurozone countries. However, it's VAT on dealer's margin, so it's a margin or differential taxation system. Nonetheless, it does increase the price quite a bit. Also note that this VAT cannot be explicitly listed on invoices as it's not supposed to be possible to get it reimbursed if you own a company and claim you bought the coins for them.

Here's a link with a quick overview (in German): https://www.gold.de/steuern-edelmetalle/

Here's the relevant German law: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ustg_1980/__25a.html

Silver coins (i.e., current or former legal tender of some sovereign state) fall under (2).1, "Sammlungsstücke," and the "Differenzbesteuerung" (i.e., margin tax) applies to them.

[StevenDS]

11 minutes ago, dollarydoos said:

That's simply not true. I know for a fact that there is VAT on silver coins in Germany and the Netherlands, and am fairly sure it's the same in most other Eurozone countries. However, it's VAT on dealer's margin, so it's a margin or differential taxation system. Nonetheless, it does increase the price quite a bit. Also note that this VAT cannot be explicitly listed on invoices as it's not supposed to be possible to get it reimbursed if you own a company and claim you bought the coins for them.

Here's a link with a quick overview (in German): https://www.gold.de/steuern-edelmetalle/

Here's the relevant German law: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ustg_1980/__25a.html

Silver coins (i.e., current or former legal tender of some sovereign state) fall under (2).1, "Sammlungsstücke," and the "Differenzbesteuerung" (i.e., margin tax) applies to them.

I'm not debating VAT on the margin of the bullion dealer.

1 hour ago, dollarydoos said:

Despite apparently also sometimes falling under some sort of margin scheme, silver coins seem to be universally more expensive in the UK because of VAT. The only country in Europe I am aware of that doesn't apply any VAT on coins is Estonia, where europeanmint.com is seated.

In your above statement you first mention the margin scheme and then talk about VAT. When you continued talking about VAT it seemed you were no longer talking about the margin scheme.

Estonia and Norway are the only two countries within Europe who apply 0% VAT on silver. In Germany the margin VAT is only applicable on non-EU coins.

[dollarydoos]

2 minutes ago, StevenDS said:

In your above statement you first mention the margin scheme and then talk about VAT. When you continued talking about VAT it seemed you were no longer talking about the margin scheme.

Ah, alright then, I could have made that more explicit. But the margin scheme, at least in Germany and the Netherlands, still imposes VAT on silver coins, at the full rate of 19% (Germany) or 21% (Netherlands). The basis for the calculation is just not the net price, but the margin. If a coin dealer buys a coin for €15 and wants to sell it for €20, the price for the customer will still include about €1 VAT. Estonia, as far as I understand it, doesn't impose any VAT whatsoever on coins, not even with a margin scheme, which is why many common 1 ounce bullion coins are typically between €0.50 and €1 cheaper there than in most other European countries.

What I don't understand is why many coins in the UK seem to have full VAT applied to the full price, while some select few are marketed as being sold under the margin scheme but are still considerably more expensive than elsewhere. But UK taxation isn't exactly my area of expertise.

[Seth]

On 10/03/2020 at 23:47, Tarsal said:

Hi guys this is my first post and sorry if its been asked before... haven’t seen a good explanation so far.

What are the typical buy or sell prices of silver relative to spot in the UK?

I understand VAT bumps up the purchase cost from businesses but how much does this bump the resale cost? Would have thought individual collectors of bullion would be able to buy and sell at roughly the same price (over spot) as they aren’t lumped with VAT.

Id be much more willing to buy silver over spot if I knew I could sell it over spot too...

I would personally recommend going further and looking at more sources then suggested here:

On 11/03/2020 at 01:18, sixgun said:

Look at the prices advertised on the forum selling section and look at sold for prices on ebay. Remember you will pay the paypal and ebay fees which are collectively about 13 - 14%.
Many members buy silver from Europe - there is the group buy with @BackyardBullion - you can also buy as an individual from the likes of https://goldsilver.be https://Europeanmint.com and you ca find a lot of German dealers through https://gold.de

You won't be able to see the most recent items on the selling section as you are not a premium member but you will be able to see older items and some of the previous sales if the sellers still have the prices up.

I've used the selling section on here to compare prices, I have not purchased anything from any members on the forum.  I've not used eBay and would not recommend using it not just because I don't consider it a reliable place to buy any precious metals, but because of the amount of fakes that are for sale on there that members here have pointed out but also the number of websites and YouTube channels dedicated to pointing out how to spot fakes on eBay, outing eBay sellers that sell fake precious metals and yet so many people still continue to get burned on eBay buying precious metal from sellers on there.  I would also suggest in addition to looking at the prices in the selling section on this forum, that you look at the ''sell to us/buy back'' pages on several different bullion dealers websites, if you can't find your specific coin on their ''sell to us/buy back'' pages for example you wanted to know the value of a 2012 silver Britannia, I'd use the lowest price given for the closest coin, for example the prices quoted for post 2012 silver Britanias instead of the price quoted for pre 2012 silver Britannias, and if that's not possible I'd use the price they pay for generic silver coins/rounds, the same with bars, if the brand of silver bar is not menioned I'd use the price quoted for generic silver bars.  These are the sort of pages from bullion dealers I mean.

Gold.co.uk Sell To Us Page

Bullion By Post Sell To Us Page

Atkinsons Bullion Sell To Us Silver Coins Page

Atkinsons Bullion Sell To Us Silver Bar Page

UK Bullion Sell To Us Page

Bleyer Bullion Sell To Us Page, Bleyer Bullion don't actually provide you with prices that they will buy bullion coins or bars from you at on their page they ask you to get in touch with them with details of what you wantt to sell to them before they will give you a quote, and they do break down the quote for you as in ''I will by this coin off of you for X this coin for Y this coin for Z''

 

I also live by the rule ''plan for the worst, but hope for the best'' which basuically means I bank on my precious metals be it gold or silver coins or bars being worth the least amount that I see, or in some cases get a quote for, not the average amount, and most certainly not the highest amount I see or am quoted.

This is just my opinion and what I do.