Question on BU premium

[Lewbear]

Hi all,

 

Just a quick question about bullion grade premiums...

I primarily stacking for weight and as such am mainly sticking to the more common BU coins etc, avoiding most things with a bigger premium- so far maples and Brits in silver and Sovs in gold.

I do however like the look of some of the higher premium stuff unsurprisingly, queens beasts for example. I understand this can come under the more buy what you like kinda stuff but ultimately all going to be sold off at some point in the future as this I'm mainly doing it for long term savings. 

So question is - if I was to pick up some of the slightly higher premium stuff (have some coat of arms silver) pr for sake of argument just say some of the queens beasts series, how likely is it to hold some sort of premium in the long term at bullion grade I.e with milk spotting toning etc?

Sorry for ling winded approach but may help avoid more questions!!! 

Thanks in advanced 

[Platinum]

If you are stacking to ”invest” then technically you will never want to buy anything but the cheapest bullion.

The Queen’s Beasts series are due to the premiums semi numismatic (at least the popular ones like the Griffin or Dragon).

If you enjoy the coins and like to have them then I would say go ahead and buy them, but never count on the premium to hold.

I personally buy them because I like them. Yet I do not count on a premium. 

A good question to ask yourself is this: In say 5-50 years, will people know of this series? What do I know of series or coins that were popular 20+ years ago? Are they still on the map?

 

[Lewbear]

some good advice and food for thought thanks 

[TechSilver]

I've been stacking and collecting for 10 years; I do both

The bulk of my silver collection is formed from stacking coins at the lowest premium such as:

Krugerrand Bullion Coin

But, I have a separate small collection of premium coins:

Dinosaur Premium Coin

It will get boring just buying Maples, Eagles, Britannia's and generic bars

Sometimes you need to treat yourself and just buy the coin you want

One day, I'll buy one of those fancy Mint of Poland 2oz high relief antique coins

You know you want one!

[sixgun]

Personally i am wary of buying higher premium silver. The reason is milk spot. This takes away much of the premium of the coin. Your investment is pretty much ruined.
A high purity gold premium coin doesn't tarnish and even if it got red spot this can be sorted.

[Lewbear]

Thanks for responses, yeh I think it is that stacking the same old coins can get a bit samey, variety is always nice!

And yes was think more along the higher premium gold being better, cant bring myself to do it at the mo, the sovs required some saving for think would find it hard to go for higher premium gold at the moment l, definitely something to look at for the future is just a shame to miss the boat and a few coins I really do like! 

[Foe]

I'm new to this but you can see certain silver like Queen Anne's revenge that shot up in price quite fast from 23 to 50 due to high demand and really nice design. I bought it late but still I can make profit from it looking at current prices. Same with Wod, the aztec and welsh are sold out and I think it will drive their prices higher.As sixgun said milking could be a problem, but Perth mint coins are amongst the best to buy cause for whatever reason they don't milk as often as other mints.

[StevenDS]

Nothing wrong with adding some premium stuff to the low premium investment stack. Just remember if you want to get to best return, you'll have to sell the premium stuff to retail customers, while it's much easier to sell the low premium stuff to a bullion dealer in bulk. It takes a lot more time finding the right buyer for premium stuff.

Selling premium stuff down the line for a profit over spot price increase is a good strategy to lower the average cost of your low premium stuff. Subject to the premium stuff being kept in good condition (no tarnish or milk spots).

I personally limit the premium stuff to max 20% (in buy value) of my silver stack. I have now even brought it down to less than 15%.

My most expensive silver BU purchases, which I haven't sold yet, are my 2018 and 2019 Korean Tigers;

[Lewbear]

And yet more food for thought, thanks it's nice to see how others approach, and yes I guess it's a risk balance and depends on mints and coins etc.

Think will give the QB a miss, probs would have picked a few up if I had come in on the lion and dragon etc but maybe not for the rest, may just go somewhere between with the likes of the coat of arms (although not sure if I'm right in saying RM are one more prone to spotting) and thought about a few of the anniversary kooks to hold for a flip in the future as they seem to do well and aren't a huge premium over spot.

Still finding my feet with the nuministic side of things!! Well with all of it to be honest!!

[Bimetallic]

It's a mistake to assume that higher premium silver is a worse investment than lower premium silver. If premiums are stable then the higher premiums are there when you buy and when you sell. Ceteris paribus, it should be a wash.

In the US, Eagles are the highest premium major bullion coin, at least in the 1 oz size. Well, Libertads are more expensive, but hard to find, especially current-year — for widely available current-year coins, Eagles cost the most. This is partly because the US Mint charges so much for them — $2.00 over spot per coin to wholesale dealers, and it's too picky about which wholesale dealers it will sell to, which artificially inflates prices (there's an elaborate process to become an Approved Purchaser, requiring several years as a major player in the industry, many millions of dollars in capital, etc.)

But it's also due to demand, and Eagles hold their value and premiums over time. If anything, their premiums might increase. Here's an interesting article on how buying Eagles can actually pay off over buying generic rounds. You're treating Maples and Brits as your lower premium baseline, not rounds, but the principle still applies.

On Queen's Beasts specifically, I would note that two ounce coins are less liquid than one ounce. On the plus side, they're 9999 fine instead of 999, but I expect this to be an extremely small factor. Finding their mintage figures would help put them in perspective. It might be that they'll be very liquid in the UK. Otherwise, Pandas seem to be a good high premium choice that grows over time.

[HawkHybrid]

silver bullion is silver made into a coin.

 

premium silver coins are desirable(hopefully)

artistic coins. they happen to be made of silver

but being silver is not their most important

feature. premium coins can be made of any

material that works. the skill, art and craft are

their most important features.

think wooden chair versus burning logs.

 

so the question boils down to:

do you want an artistic item(premium coin) or

a recognisable lump of silver(silver bullion).

 

you need to look after an artistic item, otherwise

it might end up being a recognisable lump of silver.

 

HH

[Lewbear]

Brilliant all, thanks for the time put into reposnses it is much appreciated! and some very interesting info in there, also I definitely see that's a good way of looking at higher premium stuff too! To be honest the maples were a very early purchase at a good price and since then been mainly for the brits (being UK based i like the CGT free!).

Some very interesting points about the eagles though I was unaware!

So the question now is, do I want some artistically formed silver!! 

 

[SilverGameOfThrones]

70% of my stack is generic and 30% is premium 

win win in any situation 

[Bimetallic]

21 hours ago, Lewbear said:

Brilliant all, thanks for the time put into reposnses it is much appreciated! and some very interesting info in there, also I definitely see that's a good way of looking at higher premium stuff too! To be honest the maples were a very early purchase at a good price and since then been mainly for the brits (being UK based i like the CGT free!).

Some very interesting points about the eagles though I was unaware!

So the question now is, do I want some artistically formed silver!! 

 

It's tough in the UK because of VAT. If you buy artistic silver you'll want to be sure to buy on a promotion or sale, or use any other angle you can to lower your cost. I remember reading about people using eBay "bucks" or something, in concert with finding an unusually good deal on eBay, which can happen sometimes. I assume that whatever these eBay bucks are, they have them in the UK as well.

Scottsdale silver seems to hold its value, be in high demand, etc. It might also be one of the most counterfeited as a result 😞 but I guess them's the breaks. They also make a lot of artistic silver, both for various smaller countries' mints and on their own. Check out CyberCurtainTwitcher on YouTube, a brilliant British dude who talks about all aspects of stacking, demonstrates testing for counterfeits, storage, buying tips, etc.

On the flip side, for the lowest premium silver in the world, I think your best bet is BullionVault. They're awesome, have daily audits, etc. As far as I know they have the lowest premiums for silver and gold in the world, and the lowest storage rates. I think it's 0.12% a year for gold, and higher for silver.