Coin grading - is there a visual guide/examples?

[goldking]

Is there a visual guide or coin illustration pics for all the various gradings?  I know on the numismatics grading site there is some blurb in writing about what each grade means in terms of imperfections, but I'm wanting to see close-ups of coins on both sides for each of the grades to compare the differences between a 65 grade and a 66 grade, for example.

[jultorsk]

For US coins there's at least the PCGS Photograde(TM) - gives at least some idea on what the differences look like as a starting point. 

https://www.pcgs.com/photograde

 

[SilverTanner]

For older British coins the book by Derek Allen is useful

'The Standard Guide to Grading British Coins: Modern Milled British Pre-Decimal Issues (1797 to 1970)' it uses the British system and the equivalent of MS65/66 is likely to be the top though😄

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Standard-Guide-Grading-British-Coins/dp/0948964561/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1W85UME595C89&keywords=grading+british+coins&qid=1582528017&sprefix=british+coin+grading%2Caps%2C164&sr=8-1

 

[goldking]

4 hours ago, jultorsk said:

For US coins there's at least the PCGS Photograde(TM) - gives at least some idea on what the differences look like as a starting point. 

https://www.pcgs.com/photograde

 

Thanks both.  Jultor, that one is particular useful.  I looked up the Liberty coins and did a comparison between the grades.  I reckon based on the marks and scuffs that many of my 1966 sovereigns will be MS65s which is nice.

[sovereignsteve]

I would be wary of using the Liberty photo guide as a basis for grading sovereigns. 

[JunkBond]

As they were never circulated, I assume it will be more down to dings and scratches than wear. 🤔

[goldking]

38 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

I would be wary of using the Liberty photo guide as a basis for grading sovereigns. 

It was the closest colour I can find on their site.

[sovereignsteve]

2 hours ago, goldking said:

colour

??🙄

[Seasider]

3 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

??🙄

Yes - the 68 is so much more colourful than the 64.😀

[sovereignsteve]

3 hours ago, JunkBond said:

As they were never circulated, I assume it will be more down to dings and scratches than wear. 🤔

these coins most likely treated as bullion and stored in piles/tubes etc. not treated carefully when handling so likely some wear on high points when moved around on table etc.

also dings, scuffs, scratches as you point out.

different types of coins will suffer all these problems in different parts of the design and field, which will affect the grading. @goldking MS65 is a high grade for these coins, the queen's head is a major area for problems. NGC only has 20 at this grade with just 2 at MS66

[Martlet]

12 hours ago, jultorsk said:

For US coins there's at least the PCGS Photograde(TM) - gives at least some idea on what the differences look like as a starting point. 

https://www.pcgs.com/photograde

 

Wonder if this is why people think toned coins are worth more   Why use such toned examples??

[Xander]

There is a fine line between a 69/70 I would say it could be pot luck which one you receive.  

[Seth]

17 hours ago, jultorsk said:

For US coins there's at least the PCGS Photograde(TM) - gives at least some idea on what the differences look like as a starting point. 

https://www.pcgs.com/photograde

 

This is what has always put me off buying graded coins or sending any of my coins off for grading, it's far too subjective for a start, what they show as MS68 I actually think is in far worse condition than the ones they rate as MS64 and MS65, and I'm willing to bet no two ''graders'' will give the same dozen coins the exact same grades.  Don't get me started on the whole ''conservation'' rubbish, when it comes to anything else in he world art work, antique furniture, antique pottery, vintage cars, antique jewellry, vintage motocycle, antique/vintage watches, even vintage instruments the second any sort of conservation work is done to the item, it loses value and it's grading drops, it's only in the world of coins that you see conservation work not only improving the items grading say your coin starts out as MS64 you send it in for conservation and regrading that it can come back not only with a higher grading like MS68, but also be worth more money.  I'd be well passed cheesed off and closer to going thermal nuclear if I found out that a coin that I spent well above spot plus a couple of % was rated as MS68, only because it had undergone conservation work and was originally graded as MS64, I'd refuse to pay the going rate for a MS64 coin in that scenario, to me it becomes nothing more than bullion if it's a generic coin that's relatively easy to track down, and at best a collecors piece that's been properly cleaned.  I've seen far far too many mistakes from both coin grading companies to have any faith in them.

[sovereignsteve]

9 minutes ago, Seth said:

it's far too subjective for a start, what they show as MS68 I actually think is in far worse condition than the ones they rate as MS64 and MS65,

It is subjective but the grading proess will involve more than one grader so a consensus is reached with all graders working to the same standards. That is why they produce "photograde" sets to mainly train their graders. They will have similar for all coins or some will be deemed to apply to more than one coin.

The problem is that grading from a photo is very difficult and requires a very high resolution image with good light. The differences between grades at the highest level is miniscule and cannot be adequately shown on images on a website.

The MS68 coin in the Kennedy half dollar series shown is highly toned and will put off some peolpe. They probably had to use this coin as it will be difficult to obtain coins in the highest grades to photograph.

[Seth]

1 minute ago, sovereignsteve said:

It is subjective but the grading proess will involve more than one grader so a consensus is reached with all graders working to the same standards. That is why they produce "photograde" sets to mainly train their graders. They will have similar for all coins or some will be deemed to apply to more than one coin.

The problem is that grading from a photo is very difficult and requires a very high resolution image with good light. The differences between grades at the highest level is miniscule and cannot be adequately shown on images on a website.

The MS68 coin in the Kennedy half dollar series shown is highly toned and will put off some peolpe. They probably had to use this coin as it will be difficult to obtain coins in the highest grades to photograph.

So in short its the average of the grades given by multiple graders, as I said no 2 graders will give the same dozen coins the same grade, hence why I find coin grading to be far too subjective.

[Guest]

On 24/02/2020 at 07:09, SilverTanner said:

For older British coins the book by Derek Allen is useful

'The Standard Guide to Grading British Coins: Modern Milled British Pre-Decimal Issues (1797 to 1970)' it uses the British system and the equivalent of MS65/66 is likely to be the top though😄

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Standard-Guide-Grading-British-Coins/dp/0948964561/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1W85UME595C89&keywords=grading+british+coins&qid=1582528017&sprefix=british+coin+grading%2Caps%2C164&sr=8-1

 

Agree with you, that is the best book on grading out there, very helpful, I use it all the time