HELP!

[Jamesstott93]

Hi guys,

I'm very new to the silver game so I'm looking for some advice, 

Back on the 4th Jan I sold some silver using the forum, the buyer chose the cheapest signed for postage which was second class signed for, I contacted the buyer today and he still has not yet received his silver,

I contacted royal mail to my surprise they seemed very helpful, the guy on the phone confirmed that the parcel had not yet been delivered, but as it is only signed for postage he can only see when it was posted and when it has been delivered, he told me they have a time period before the parcel is considered lost, so if the parcel has not been delivered by the 20 01 20 then it will be considered lost, and I would have to make a claim and provide them with proof of sale IE the messages between me and the buyer, also proof of payment IE bank statement, and proof of postage which I also have,

Does anybody have any experience with this happening to them or anybody they know?

Can the funds be retrieved, how long does the claim process take ect,

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

James.

 

[AndrewSL76]

Sorry to hear this. I had a similar experience last year. I sold some silver on ebay and sent by tracked delivery. The RM could only say when the parcel was delivered. Two weeks after it was sent, I was about to issue a full refund and then make a complaint to the RM and the buyer contacted me to confirm it had been received. Not sure what happened on that occasion, but it seems that sometimes things do take a bit of time. I was VERY lucky that the seller was patient and understood that the delay was not mine.......

Hope it turns up soon. I am sure that it will.

A.

[BackyardBullion]

From my experience, you won't be covered for the precious metals in the parcel unless you use special delivery.

The best you can hope for is a refund on the cost of postage if you make a claim for the lost silver.

What did you arrange with the buyer on the forum regarding postage liability?

Going forward, my advice for anyone selling on the forum is that the seller always make it clear who has liability for this situation based on the type of postage selected.

I am not sure on the legal side of things for a private sale, but certainly morally the responsibility lies with the seller to refund/replace the items if they do go missing without any prior agreement for liability.

Hopefully it will just be a delay and will arrive at some point.

 

[goldking]

2nd class mail and parcels can take weeks to arrive from my experience, especially packets and parcels.  Last year I was buying stuff on a regular basis from a guy in Suffolk to be delivered to me in W Yorks, a mixture of letter/small packet sized stuff plus some parcels.  All was sent by 2nd class to keep the costs down and from what I remember, the quickest one of them arrived was 5 days and that was a letter.  All of the parcels took well over a week to arrive and those were the quick ones!  Several took over 2 weeks and one which I'd written off as lost eventually turned up 23 days after posting!  RM must chuck all the 2nd class stuff in a corner or something until they get fed up of tripping over them and eventually decide to deliver them as there's no consistency at all with 2nd class.  I'd recommend you give it a couple more weeks .

[Jamesstott93]

Thank you all for your replies, the buyer simply stated that he was happy for the cheapest signed for, if it does turn out that the parcel is lost I will either replace the items or refund the buyer, regardless who the liability lies with as it's the right thing to do, and if it was the other way round I would certainly not be happy if I was to pay £165 and not receive my item, and to be fair building a good reputation and feedback on here is worth more than £165 to me, hopefully it will turn up and everybody will be happy 

Thanks again guys 

James.

[LiquidMetalsUK]

I have had this happens couple times when I have sent 1st class signed. I have been lucky that the buyers were very patient and we waited. Just over 2 weeks later both parcels turned up. 

Good luck 

[BackyardBullion]

I have had 2nd class items arrive next day and also take up to 1 month, it's a lottery!

[LiquidMetalsUK]

Personally for piece of mind I send anything over £50 SD and make sure the buyer knows that anything under this is at there own risk

[Jamesstott93]

Just now, BackyardBullion said:

I have had 2nd class items arrive next day and also take up to 1 month, it's a lottery!

I just found it strange as I posted a parcel to another silver forum member at the same time also second class signed for and he has already received his silver 

James.

[goldking]

1 minute ago, BackyardBullion said:

I have had 2nd class items arrive next day and also take up to 1 month, it's a lottery!

Yep, agreed.  Personally in your shoes James, I wouldn't be looking to refund until a full month has gone by.  The buyer opted for the cheapest delivery method when other, swifter methods are available so until a signature appears it's in RMs hands and there's nothing you can do.  Based on my experiences of 2nd class I'm willing to bet that it will arrive safe and sound within the next 2 weeks.

[Jamesstott93]

3 minutes ago, goldking said:

Yep, agreed.  Personally in your shoes James, I wouldn't be looking to refund until a full month has gone by.  The buyer opted for the cheapest delivery method when other, swifter methods are available so until a signature appears it's in RMs hands and there's nothing you can do.  Based on my experiences of 2nd class I'm willing to bet that it will arrive safe and sound within the next 2 weeks.

Total agree it's my responsibility, unless otherwise stated, even then I'd probably still refund, as I would feel bad haha 

James.

[5huggy]

19 minutes ago, Jamesstott93 said:

Total agree it's my responsibility, unless otherwise stated, even then I'd probably still refund, as I would feel bad haha 

James.

Surely it would be "FAIREST" to both take 50% responsibility/cost - - Just my opinion !

IF IT COMES to it - - - but most likely they will turn up! 🤞

[Jamesstott93]

17 minutes ago, 5huggy said:

Surely it would be "FAIREST" to both take 50% responsibility/cost - - Just my opinion !

IF IT COMES to it - - - but most likely they will turn up! 🤞

Hopefully it will turn up, there are some amazing pieces of silver in there, be such a shame if it was lost.

Thank you for you reply 

James.

[Peacemaker]

personally, I wouldn't request the cheapest postage method if I am paying £165, if i did, I would accept full responsibility for requesting the cheapest option, what is £7-£8 on £165 when it means it is fully insured, cant penny pinch on delivery costs and still expect full insurance from the seller, this is why I offer post of choice, that way you are in control of your own risk, you choose 2nd class, for £100's, that is your risk, I am not willing to let a buyer pay the cheapest postage and I am the one at risk, my opinion, it was the buyers risk. 

I am not discrediting the buyer, I don't know who they are but does the buyer have good reputation on the forum?

[sovereignsteve]

I was just about to post something similar.

It is accepted on TSF sales that if the buyer has the choice of postage, it is at their risk. Agreed this should be clarified before the goods are sent to avoid any unpleasantries down the line.

In my experience it is extremely rare for post to go missing but equally it is unreasonable for a buyer to be able to choose the cheapest postage and expect a delivery guantantee from the seller.

Any seller who is willing to do this, please tell me and I will buy all my coins from you😉

[Jamesstott93]

2 minutes ago, Peacemaker said:

personally, I wouldn't request the cheapest postage method if I am paying £165, if i did, I would accept full responsibility for requesting the cheapest option, what is £7-£8 on £165 when it means it is fully insured, cant penny pinch on delivery costs and still expect full insurance from the seller, this is why I offer post of choice, that way you are in control of your own risk, you choose 2nd class, for £100's, that is your risk, I am not willing to let a buyer pay the cheapest postage and I am the one at risk, my opinion, it was the buyers risk. 

I am not discrediting the buyer, I don't know who they are but does the buyer have good reputation on the forum?

He has plus 337 next to his name so he is a lot better reputation than I do, and from what I can tell is a nice guy, fingers crossed that royal mail are just taking their time and the parcel is safe and sound, however If it comes to it I will take responsibility on this occasion and in future when selling I will state that the postage you choose is your own risk, plus the last thing I want to do is received bad feedback on the forum or to come across as somebody that people don't want to deal with, as I very much enjoy being a member of the community and dealing with you guys, so I won't risk that for the sake of £165,

Thank you for you help

James.

[Jamesstott93]

4 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

I was just about to post something similar.

It is accepted on TSF sales that if the buyer has the choice of postage, it is at their risk. Agreed this should be clarified before the goods are sent to avoid any unpleasantries down the line.

In my experience it is extremely rare for post to go missing but equally it is unreasonable for a buyer to be able to choose the cheapest postage and expect a delivery guantantee from the seller.

Any seller who is willing to do this, please tell me and I will buy all my coins from you😉

I'm very new to this forum so I didn't know the process very well, however if it is infact lost I will give a full refund or the equivalent in silver, and I will just see it as a lesson on buying and selling lol

James.

[Peacemaker]

8 minutes ago, Jamesstott93 said:

He has plus 337 next to his name so he is a lot better reputation than I do, and from what I can tell is a nice guy, fingers crossed that royal mail are just taking their time and the parcel is safe and sound, however If it comes to it I will take responsibility on this occasion and in future when selling I will state that the postage you choose is your own risk, plus the last thing I want to do is received bad feedback on the forum or to come across as somebody that people don't want to deal with, as I very much enjoy being a member of the community and dealing with you guys, so I won't risk that for the sake of £165,

Thank you for you help

James.

You cant receive bad feedback for posting at the buyers request, it goes without saying, if you choose a postage method, you are liable, if it was free postage and the buyer had no say the method, then that would have been your risk as the seller, as long as you have proof of post receipt, you are not liable, I may come across as someone not to deal with right now, but that's how it has to be, you accept the risks as the buyer, void all risk and pay special delivery.

[ChrisF]

9 hours ago, Peacemaker said:

You cant receive bad feedback for posting at the buyers request, it goes without saying, if you choose a postage method, you are liable, if it was free postage and the buyer had no say the method, then that would have been your risk as the seller, as long as you have proof of post receipt, you are not liable, I may come across as someone not to deal with right now, but that's how it has to be, you accept the risks as the buyer, void all risk and pay special delivery.

Right on!!! 

[sovereignsteve]

9 hours ago, Jamesstott93 said:

He has plus 337 next to his name so he is a lot better reputation than I do, and from what I can tell is a nice guy

 

11 hours ago, Jamesstott93 said:

Back on the 4th Jan I sold some silver using the forum, the buyer chose the cheapest signed for postage which was second class signed for,

I am sure the silver will eventually arrive but if not, I can't believe the buyer who has been around here long enough to accumulate a feedback of +337 will expect you to be liable for the delivery. That would be extremely unreasonable behaviour IMO.

[Jamesstott93]

He has not mentioned anything about who is liable, I didn't really creat the post to help with who would be liable I created more on the Royal mail side of things and to see if anybody had experienced this before, however all the information given is much appreciated, and has touch me a thing or two, hopefully it will show up and all will be well, I will give it 30 days from the original postage date, if no silver has shown up I am prepared to give a full refund or the same amount of silver, because at the end of the day I did not put on my advert that the postage is at the buyers risk, also the guy has paid and if he doesnt receive anything, I wouldn't feel right in myself, like I say fingers crossed it shows up 🤞

Thank you for you reply

James.

[5huggy]

Langsam mein Freund😉👍

σιγά-σιγά φίλε μου 🤣

[Jamesstott93]

3 minutes ago, 5huggy said:

Langsam mein Freund😉👍

σιγά-σιγά φίλε μου 🤣

I'm not even rising to the challenge, you clearly have a much better vocabulary than me 😂

[Melon]

15 hours ago, BackyardBullion said:

From my experience, you won't be covered for the precious metals in the parcel unless you use special delivery.

The best you can hope for is a refund on the cost of postage if you make a claim for the lost silver.

What did you arrange with the buyer on the forum regarding postage liability?

Going forward, my advice for anyone selling on the forum is that the seller always make it clear who has liability for this situation based on the type of postage selected.

I am not sure on the legal side of things for a private sale, but certainly morally the responsibility lies with the seller to refund/replace the items if they do go missing without any prior agreement for liability.

Hopefully it will just be a delay and will arrive at some point.

Perhaps it's just me, but if I'm buying something and I select the cheapest shipping that doesn't include insurance, I'd consider that to be me accepting liability. If the seller is choosing postage method that's on them. 

In this instance I think the seller would be very reasonable in agreeing to go 50/50 on the loss, given nobody is at fault and there's proof of postage. 

That said, odds are it shows up late anyway. Usually does with Royal Mail.