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Wrong strategy - regret my purchases - tip for starters


Ron

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I think its always a good idea to keep track of your cost average, everything i buy is written down on paper including the exact price i paid posted to my door, makes it easy to keep on top of.

I mostly buy for weight, UK CGT free if possible but if its cheap enough il take anything, i dont care if its milk spotted, scratched or even if your dog ate it once, if its brings my cost average down im happy.

Means i feel less guilty about just buying 10 years worth of silver pandas....

 

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I would recommend Britannia's over Maples as the premium is similar and there's no capital gains tax on the Brits where as there could be (depending on your situation/sale price) with the Maples.

I also focus on low premium with the acception of queens beasts which from what I have seen seems to be a premium worth paying for newly released coins.

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Nice post Ron.

It's helpful to me as a newbie and I appreciate it.

I've literally only started my collection and would class myself as a stacker. I've started looking through lowest price coins but getting bored of the designs and then I see some absolutely beautiful ones with a high premium and start to consider them - alas, without pulling the trigger but the thought and future purchase potential is in my head.

I would say it's a very easy trap to fall into.. however, isn't there a sort of subset of categories in which you can be a stacker with an eye on collecting too? A somewhat hybrid of the 2 - I mean I am in this hobby to stack but I can also see myself paying premiums for coins I like or that have meaning to me. And for that, I don't mind paying a little more.

 

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11 hours ago, Ron said:

But that's is exactly my point, in that situation, who cares if there's a panda on the coin, or a Mammoth or a dragon? It all comes down at the weight of the silver. That's why I regret buying all these panda's etc.

I'm picturing the scene now... 

The year is 2027. It's been 6 months since the collapse. Resources are scarce, food is fiercely contested. There is no order, only sustained disorder. Survivors have formed into tribes for protection and to defend territory. Paper money serves only as kindling for campfires to keep the cold at bay.

Ron of the Bethnal Green tribe managed to bring down a Labrador three days ago in a rare stroke of luck. He feasted on the succulent meat, but now it is starting to fester in the heat. It won't last much longer, there is nowhere to keep it cold. Drinking water is an issue, it's been days since he properly quenched his thirst. Times are desperate. 

The Cambridge Heath tribe have a water well. It runs deep and true, not too far from here. He could refill his water-skins there if he had something to trade, but Cambridge Heath have no need of tepid meat. They are vegans. Ron will need to find something to trade. Realisation strikes, back in 2019 he had purchased some coins on a whim. He told himself it was for financial stability, but he knew in his heart he was drawn to the shining metal on a primitive level. He wanted it then, but not as badly as he wanted supplies now. The way forward was clear, take the coins to Cambridge Heath and propose a trade for sustenance... 

It was getting dark by the time Ron had collected his precious coins and walked the hard miles toward the water well. The Cambridge Heath tribe had tracked his movement since he crossed the border to their territory and were following him at a distance, eager to trade, but wary of the stranger in their midst. Bows were slung across shoulders, tensions are high. As Ron approaches the last yards to the water well, the figure of a tribe elder appeared from the shadows. Negotiations have begun. 

Rob pulled a handful of shiny coins from his pocket and dropped them to the table in front of the elder. Like the on-rush of Autumn, leaves fell from his hand onto the table in a dishevelled pile. "Water" Ron croaked, "water and food." The elder looked on in disdain, an eyebrow raised, and slowly bent to inspect the offer. With a gruff sneer he rejected Rob's offer; "We have no interest in these coins" he said. "They hold no numismatic value." The silence that followed was deafening... 

Rob was deflated, dejected, defeated. What next? He had come all this way... "What do you want?" croaked Rob to the elder, disappointment tainting his words, seeping from every inch of his being. The elder hesitated but a moment, before declaring loudly "The QUEENS BEASTS! We only accept the Beasts in Cambridge Heath!"

Rob's breath caught in the back of his throat. The water well was mere steps away and he could hear the slosh of that life-giving liquid even as a memory slowed formed in his mind. Yes, he had collected coins for some time, ounces upon ounces, tubes that turned into boxes, boxes into crates. He had cherished the weight of it above all else. But hadn't there been a time early on when it had been different? Hasn't he obtained some of the Queens Beasts at the very beginning? Surely there was hope! 

Ron reached into his pockets, hardly daring to believe, and started pouring out coins and tubes on to the table in front of him. He frantically began opening tubes, pouring out their contents, searching for lions and dragons mixed in amongst the leaves. They must be here, surely they must or all hope was lost. It couldn't end this way, no not for Ron, he had been so careful to store each coin like a treasured possession. They simply must be here...

Just as doubt began to set in, he found them. Beneath a pile of harps, there they were. The Queens Beasts glimmered in the reflective light of the tribesmen's fiery torches. They had approached in excitement at the prospect of seeing the beasts. The elders eyes widened in shock as he set his sight upon them, before slowing lifting his gaze to fix firmly on Ron's face. "Water" rasped Ron. "Food! ... for the Beasts!" The Elder stared a moment, two moments, three. Suddenly he burst into shocking cackles of glee, howls of hysteria, banging his wrinkled hand down upon the table as if to emphasise the point. "Those..." he said, barely withholding a further outburst. "Water and food for... those?" The elders eyes danced in the firelight, freezing Ron where he stood with his steely glare. The Elder sighed... "Those are not verified by NGC, we only accept slabbed MS 70 coins in Cambridge Heath boy. Be gone from here Ron and never dare return." 

Ron left that place, empty handed and remorseful. Years of preparation and he'd failed to realise the truth. At the end of time, who cares for shiny metal when plastic boxes and special ratings are so highly in demand? Such waste... such regret. If only he knew then what he knew now. Hindsight can truly be the heaviest weight to carry thought Ron.  

Ron starved to death on the way home and his carcass was eaten by hungry wolves. The end. 

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To get an overview of the state of the silver market and where the price of silver is heading the document below might be of interest 

https://www.silverinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/WSS2019V3.pdf

Add the rising per unit cost of energy, reduction of available water, environmental concerns, decreasing ore grades and increasing demand into the mix, and I don't think silver will get cheaper any time soon. Could be wrong though, often am. 

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22 hours ago, sasha said:

Always remember your exit strategy, what is the purpose of buying silver. Are you wanting to be a collector, or are you wanting to eventually sell off your stack for profits etc? View the price of of other sites, then compare it else where. I personally would not buy from Ebay, this is only my preference. Alot of guys here sell on Ebay however, and well trusted. 

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5 hours ago, MintageSeller said:

Always remember your exit strategy, what is the purpose of buying silver. Are you wanting to be a collector, or are you wanting to eventually sell off your stack for profits etc? View the price of of other sites, then compare it else where. I personally would not buy from Ebay, this is only my preference. Alot of guys here sell on Ebay however, and well trusted. 

Best exit strategy, stand close to the exit.

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An interesting thread. I was never interested in stacking silver and I think I’m kidding myself in regarding my collection as an investment... because I’m not sure I could bring myself to sell. 

Of course we are all aware that our silver has an intrinsic value- which is nice- but how many of us are using its investment status as a convenient excuse to buy another shiny thing rather than a serious effort to put something by for the future? 

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I'm all for having Maples, Kangaroos, Britannias, Philharmonics. Truthfully I need more of them as there is little emotional attachment to them. This year I'm going to try to get 75 Maples, 75 Kangaroos, and 40 Philharmonics.

 

 However if I can get a beautiful Queen's Beast, the very first Royal Arms coin ever,Perth Mint Next Gen or RCM Predator series for basically the same price as those, then why buy the standard bullion coin as those are very unique coins which will only be made once  and could potentially appreciate without silver going up?

 

When you get Kookaburras, Koalas and Valiants then it's hard to look at a standard bullion coin and be impressed.

 

EDIT: I would encourage you NOT to sell your more unique items. I believe you will regret it.

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On 12/12/2019 at 02:33, Melon said:

I'm picturing the scene now... 

The year is 2027. It's been 6 months since the collapse. Resources are scarce, food is fiercely contested. There is no order, only sustained disorder. Survivors have formed into tribes for protection and to defend territory. Paper money serves only as kindling for campfires to keep the cold at bay.

Ron of the Bethnal Green tribe managed to bring down a Labrador three days ago in a rare stroke of luck. He feasted on the succulent meat, but now it is starting to fester in the heat. It won't last much longer, there is nowhere to keep it cold. Drinking water is an issue, it's been days since he properly quenched his thirst. Times are desperate. 

The Cambridge Heath tribe have a water well. It runs deep and true, not too far from here. He could refill his water-skins there if he had something to trade, but Cambridge Heath have no need of tepid meat. They are vegans. Ron will need to find something to trade. Realisation strikes, back in 2019 he had purchased some coins on a whim. He told himself it was for financial stability, but he knew in his heart he was drawn to the shining metal on a primitive level. He wanted it then, but not as badly as he wanted supplies now. The way forward was clear, take the coins to Cambridge Heath and propose a trade for sustenance...

Ron starved to death on the way home and his carcass was eaten by hungry wolves. The end. 

Excellent,  when does your first book come out @Melon

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On 11/12/2019 at 15:34, Ron said:

Hi guys,

Want to share my thoughts and maybe it might be helpful for starters in stacking who are - like me - maybe too enthousiast 😉

 

I started stacking only a few months ago. Basically for three reasons:

. If I don't buy PM, I think I might spend all my money, but more important:
. to have some extra money when I stop working and 
. have PM in case of financial crisis, collapse financial system

I started to buy coins like Maple Leafs, Kangaroos and Philharmoniker.  Seems great I think.

But then I wanted some variations and coins which looked more beautiful. So I started buying Silver Eagles, Britannia's. Still ok.

But then I wanted to buy real beautiful coins so I started to buy Queens Beasts, Red Back Spiders, Rectangular Dragons, Panda's, Giants of the Ice age etc... Absolutely beautiful coins but with higher premiums than the basic bullion coins.

 

Stacking went really fast. Within three months got myself over 200 OZ of Silver (mostly Male Leafs) and more than 1 Oz of gold

And then I started thinking. Thinking about the future and what I'm going to do when it's time to liquidate my stack. And realized that I just want to go to a bullion dealer and hand over one of more tubes with coins and get the cash. I don't think I am a guy who wants to sell individual coins on ebay or other marketplaces on the internet. Don't want to check if a coin has 'gained' some extra premiums, wait for a bid, negotiate, send the coins, waiting for money. I don't have the time for that and I think I don't like it. Just want to sell quick, preferably after silver prices has gone up.

So I wanted to share this with mostly other starters here on the forum. Think about the future and how you want to get rid of the PM before you decide to buy all kind of coins. I first bought and then started thinking.

And now I am sitting here with about 40 Oz of beautiful coins, most Panda's, while I'd rather had 2 tubes of Maple Leafs haha. Cause only now I realize that I am a stacker, not a collector (but I will not die because I bought 40 Oz of the 'wrong' coins)

If anybody wants to buy some, let me know. But most of you guys are in the UK, so sending the coins to the UK might be too expensive. Selling them on ebay to Eurepeans won't make much sense I think cause the coins are not rare and most coins can still be bought at dealers. I guess I'll just have to wait till the silverprices are exploded and then sell them for spot to a dealer. 

Besides all this, one of the main reasons I buy silver if in case of a financial crisis, collapse of financial system. At that time, who cares whether there's a Panda on a coin, or a Mammoth. At that time I think it's al about the silver and all coins are worth spotprice.

 

 

 

This happened to me while collecting other stuff before to get into PM's. I bought a lot of stuff , half of it were great "investments" and the other half was almost unsellable. It made me learn and eventually started with PM's with a good exit strategy first.

This is by far the most important thing , the exit strategy. Hope someone will learn from your post.

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 I made the same mistakes bought all sorts of random silver coins mostly 10-20% above spot.

However i am now just focusing on 10oz Silver bars and Gold Coins like Sovs, and all fractionals from 1/10-1oz, No premium stuff unless its only marginally above, for example i got a 1oz Panda only £20 more than a Brit so went for that

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On 15/12/2019 at 21:54, silvernewbie said:

 I made the same mistakes bought all sorts of random silver coins mostly 10-20% above spot.

 

I'd love to know how you're getting hold of silver for cheaper than that! :) (including taxes, shipping etc)

 

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I can’t say I’m partially bothered about an exit strategy, that will be my son’s problem.

As for non-mainstream coins I have a few from Pressburg Mint, simply because I like them.

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On 11/12/2019 at 15:51, StevenDS said:

My end goals is to sell those 20% for more maples and eventually sell the maples for gold bar(s) when the ratio makes sense.

Personally i favour gold coins - there are so many fake gold bars about. i have never bought a gold bar - i probably never will. i think most people here would buy a coin over a bar and so there is a smaller market to sell into when the times comes. 

Always cast your vote - Spoil your ballot slip. Put 'Spoilt Ballot - I do not consent.' These votes are counted. If you do not do this you are consenting to the tyranny. None of them are fit for purpose. 
A tyranny relies on propaganda and force. Once the propaganda fails all that's left is force.

COVID-19 is a cover story for the collapsing economy. Green Energy isn't Green and it isn't Renewable.

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1 minute ago, sixgun said:

Personally i favour gold coins - there are so many fake gold bars about. i have never bought a gold bar - i probably never will. i think most people here would buy a coin over a bar and so there is a smaller market to sell into when the times comes. 

Same as my silver, I let me exit strategy determine what to buy. When I'll be selling my gold it will probably be at a dealer/smelter like Tony Goetz. The spread between buying and selling from them is less then 1%. Very easy and no liquidity issues. I can go there with a 1 kg gold bar and have the money wired immediately.

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5 hours ago, StevenDS said:

Same as my silver, I let me exit strategy determine what to buy. When I'll be selling my gold it will probably be at a dealer/smelter like Tony Goetz. The spread between buying and selling from them is less then 1%. Very easy and no liquidity issues. I can go there with a 1 kg gold bar and have the money wired immediately.

Hi @StevenDS  are you talking about bullion coins or bars only ? for the 1%

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5 hours ago, Toshunya86 said:

Thank you.I know Antwerp is traditionally the place for diamond market , but didn't know about this company

Tony Goetz are currently not listed on LMBA list. Making them less attractive to buyers.

I can also use the Umicore shop for competitively priced gold. They only deliver in Belgium, but do not do buy backs.

20191219_030403.png

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I think the general consensus is that stackers, by definition, have an easier and probably more profitable task in turning their precious metal into hard cash.

As a collector I am resigned to a protracted and piecemeal sale of my coins should I wish to make any profit. What do forum members recommend if a collector wants to cash in quickly? 

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On 11/12/2019 at 08:05, Ron said:

Tnx. I try to have 2/3 silver and 1/3 gold

 

On 11/12/2019 at 08:28, Numistacker said:

The problem with your strategy is that it does not work well unless there is a massive hike in Silver price or you buy in bulk 500oz at a time from a distributor type dealer and even then the price has to go up lots. The margins on Silver are wide and the odds are against you in my view.

PM at that level is NOT an investment it is a hedge against future inflation and that means you need to keep stuff for 5-15 years to allow this to work in your favour. If you like coins then go for semi-numismatic coins bought at issue and see if you can create an above inflation hike in value but you say you dont want to then sell individually so perhaps forget that one.

Either way you can be successful at hedging and you can be successful at saving but these types of low volumes on silver are NOT an investment.

Numi is right, I believe. 

Further discussion:

If you're stacking as both hedge against inflation and for future reset and SHTF, then my own strategy would be to stack a couple hundred ounces of mostly fractional silver (dimes, quarters, and half dollars), then focus most of the rest into fractional gold (eg- half eagles, pesos).

At some point after that, when you feel like you have a decent fractional stack, then start piling up the 1 ounce gold and generic silver. Or just keep it all fractional; whichever you prefer. 

And if you're concerned about SHTF, then be sure to have several hundred in fiat cash, since that might still be important, especially early in any crisis scenario. 

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In 2009 people were waiting to sale 90% silver for weeks due to big queue in  refining  process so the best choice in any situation  is generic  trusted  999 full or fractional silver , easy to sale at spot at any time . 

Premium silver requires more time to sale but if u choose the right collections u will have some profit  even with the same spot price 

My  Silver strategy which help me to be in love with silver for the last 5  years . Remember silver is a looong time game 

33% in 1-2oz premium for fun and profit . Build premium silver in Collections not in single coins . Always rebuild/resale , be flexible with market

33% in diff size silver bars , coins or rounds more than 1oz ,- 2oz, 5oz, 10oz .  A bit  premium but still close to spot with potential to grow in price so i consider it as strategic silver , - 10 oz silver bars from SMI or RCM are the most liquid if u ask me 

33% in 1oz good generic silver finally . Keep it new , not many want to buy old scratched and demanded silver even for spot . This is u strategic silver to hold , trade on gold when silver gold ratio will collapse or sale when silver price will skyrocket ( With amount of money Fed printing last days it WILL  skyrocket we just dont know when ahh ) 

Things to avoid :

Stacking BIG  major multi million government coins with $2-3 premium  like ASE,  Maples, Kangaroos, Britannias, Philharmonics . With the same spot price u will never get u premium back . Any local shop will give 1$ max over spot so there is no reason to buy this over good generic rounds like Sunshine

Slab or certified silver ,- I am not so rich to pay for plastic . I have my 5 methods to check fake silver with 99.99% guaranty.   

Numismatic silver ,- if u don't understand , don't overpay 

Gold ? With current gold silver ratio i see no reason to buy gold over silver.  

Good luck 😎

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