Opinions required on grading shield sovereign

[MLNCoins]

Afternoon all,

Looking to get the opinion of more experienced eyes than my own about this sovereign and what you would grade it at, as well as what you'd pay for it. Not looking to sell it I just can't quite figure it out by myself. You can see that reverse side looks really good but the obverse is much more dull in colour with scratches. Whether someone has got some polish to this I've no idea.

Interestingly it's showing as a scarce coin with only 80,016 minted from Melbourne in 1877. So very pleased with this purchase. 

[Norskgeld]

It would probably get a "Details" grade due to the scratches, dents and signs of being cleaned.

[RoslandGold]

Could you please take a picture in a dark room (no lights on) using a camera with flashlight?

Most of the scratches are restorable. But i think - like @Norskgeld - wrote already, that it will be Details / UNC.

 

[Seasider]

I think there are narrow and wide ribbon versions of this half sovereign with the wide being rarer.  It may be worth seeing if yours is a wide ribbon version and if it is get the grading company to classify it as such.  I am no good at judging such things but yours may be a wider ribbon.

[MLNCoins]

1 hour ago, RoslandGold said:

Could you please take a picture in a dark room (no lights on) using a camera with flashlight?

Most of the scratches are restorable. But i think - like @Norskgeld - wrote already, that it will be Details / UNC.

 

Hope this is what you're after. After several attempts this was the best of the lot.

Noted about the details grading. I'm not really fussed about it being graded at all,  i was just curious to get other people's opinions.

[Zhorro]

1 hour ago, RoslandGold said:

Could you please take a picture in a dark room (no lights on) using a camera with flashlight?

Most of the scratches are restorable. But i think - like @Norskgeld - wrote already, that it will be Details / UNC.

 

I am not sure what you mean by the scratches being "restorable" - I would have thought a scratch is a scratch.  As to condition, I would have thought it was more like a "fine" rather than "UNC".

[sixgun]

1 hour ago, RoslandGold said:

Most of the scratches are restorable. 

How are the scratches restored?

[RoslandGold]

Just now, sixgun said:

How are the scratches restored?

If it's only the last layer, the polish it. If it's deeper there is no chance. Use a cup with water, lots of salt and some pieces of alumium foil, put it in the cup for 5 minutes and see what happen. Make sure that the coin is dried on the air, otherwise you will get more and deeper scratches. 

[sovereignsteve]

It looks like the type with obverse 3 to me, which is the rarer one. Marsh classes it as "Rare", whereas the type with obverse 4 is "Scarce".

The mintage for the latter is 80k as you say, but it could be that of the rare type is included in this number. Marsh says unknown mintage.

It's a mess and well worn, certainly nowhere near "Unc Details". It may be worth grading to get a verdict on type although I'm not sure just how rare they are.

 

 

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1 hour ago, RoslandGold said:

If it's only the last layer, the polish it. If it's deeper there is no chance. Use a cup with water, lots of salt and some pieces of alumium foil, put it in the cup for 5 minutes and see what happen. Make sure that the coin is dried on the air, otherwise you will get more and deeper scratches. 

Interesting. Anyone care to comment on the chemistry of this?

[RoslandGold]

27 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

It looks like the type with obverse 3 to me, which is the rarer one. Marsh classes it as "Rare", whereas the type with obverse 4 is "Scarce".

The mintage for the latter is 80k as you say, but it could be that of the rare type is included in this number. Marsh says unknown mintage.

It's a mess and well worn, certainly nowhere near "Unc Details". It may be worth grading to get a verdict on type although I'm not sure just how rare they are.

 

 

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Interesting. Anyone care to comment on the chemistry of this?

ill show you the result with 2 liberty 2019 high relief gold in a hour or two. Ill do it when im at home.

They are completly red doted and scratched. If this doesnt help, ill melt them.

 

Edit: I forgot them in our office.. ill do it tomorrow. But im very sure they are very clean after that. Most of the cases PCGS and NGC rate even BU coins as Proof after doing that 😉 

Attached is before. 

[Auricsstash]

I can’t wait to see this!!!

[MLNCoins]

52 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

It looks like the type with obverse 3 to me, which is the rarer one. Marsh classes it as "Rare", whereas the type with obverse 4 is "Scarce".

The mintage for the latter is 80k as you say, but it could be that of the rare type is included in this number. Marsh says unknown mintage.

It's a mess and well worn, certainly nowhere near "Unc Details". It may be worth grading to get a verdict on type although I'm not sure just how rare they are.

 

 

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Interesting. Anyone care to comment on the chemistry of this?

If this is "The gold half sovereign" by Michael A Marsh. Could you tell me which page you are looking at please for the obverse 3.

[sovereignsteve]

2 hours ago, nee4891 said:

If this is "The gold half sovereign" by Michael A Marsh. Could you tell me which page you are looking at please for the obverse 3.

which edition do you have?

[MLNCoins]

8 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

which edition do you have?

Cambridge coins, didn't know there was more the one by him. I just borrowed this from my dad. 

[sovereignsteve]

20 minutes ago, nee4891 said:

Cambridge coins, didn't know there was more the one by him. I just borrowed this

First edition 1982. This is not a very good book with lots of omissions. The updated version 2017 revised by Steve Hill has far more information and photos.

There's nothing about the Melbourne 1877 varieties in this edition, simply stating one type with a mintage of 80,016 as you point out.

Plate 7 on page 28 shows a coin with obverse 4.  I don't think there are any photos of obverse 3

[MLNCoins]

17 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

First edition 1982. This is not a very good book with lots of omissions. The updated version 2017 revised by Steve Hill has far more information and photos.

There's nothing about the Melbourne 1877 varieties in this edition, simply stating one type with a mintage of 80,016 as you point out.

Plate 7 on page 28 shows a coin with obverse 4.  I don't think there are any photos of obverse 3

Amazing thank you, I think he also might have this one as well!

I'll check that out before I go any further I think. Appreciate the help! 

[sovereignsteve]

1 minute ago, nee4891 said:

Amazing thank you, I think he also might have this one as well!

I'll check that out before I go any further I think. Appreciate the help! 

If he has, good on him!

You want page 125 for the pictures of the obverses and page 138 for the coin info.

[MLNCoins]

He doesn't have it unfortunately but we've had a look online and found some interesting information on numistip. I do think it's the wide ribbon version which apparently there is 20,000 of them. (I'm guessing that's obverse 3 from that book you mentioned @sovereignsteve?)

I think this might be a job for @Numistacker...

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, nee4891 said:

He doesn't have it unfortunately but we've had a look online and found some interesting information on numistip. I do think it's the wide ribbon version which apparently there is 20,000 of them. (I'm guessing that's obverse 3 from that book you mentioned @sovereignsteve?)

I think this might be a job for @Numistacker...

NGC will usually only grade varieties with a catalogue number in Spink or Marsh so variety need to have its own number 

[RoslandGold]

On 07/12/2019 at 17:13, sixgun said:

How are the scratches restored?

here you are.. 

 

[MLNCoins]

1 hour ago, Numistacker said:

NGC will usually only grade varieties with a catalogue number in Spink or Marsh so variety need to have its own number 

Further to this I've had a look and I think its the variety number S-3863 (spink) or McDonald 018a. Now I might be getting way ahead of myself with that as it's categorised as R3. Opinions welcome.

Link for information I found

https://onlinecoin.club/Coins/Country/United_Kingdom/Half_Sovereign_1877/

[Seasider]

https://numistip.com/view/1877m_wide_ribbon_half_sovereign_591.html

You have probably seen this page already but it has pictures comparing the wide and narrow ribbon versions in case that helps.

[MLNCoins]

9 minutes ago, Seasider said:

https://numistip.com/view/1877m_wide_ribbon_half_sovereign_591.html

You have probably seen this page already but it has pictures comparing the wide and narrow ribbon versions in case that helps.

I have yes thank you. 

[TheGoldSovereign]

As everyone has pointed out it will get Details, probably "Tooled" I would think. Not worth grading tbh.