2020 Una and the Lion

[Realwealthuprising]

10 minutes ago, Numistacker said:

It looks like there were 4 bidders.. a big big dealer bid £5,000 then a new bidder with 0 feedback went into the ring then two others joined both outbidding each other and going for bids near the previous selling prices. One had 72 feedback and one a dealer probably with 4550 feedback.  ebay generated lots of automatic bids as each time 72 feedback bidder bid 

The winners early bid on 6th Jan was eventually eclipsed by bidder with 72 

They both carried on outbidding each other and eventually the dealer made a final bid over and above his previous top bid of presumably a much higher amount to ensure he was not eclipsed at the last. The 0 feedback bidder was only there in the game very early? Does this look like shill bidding? well if it was then the bidder at 72 was the shill and playing a VERY risky game by bidding so high. It looks to me like both parties really wanted to buy this coin.

 

Corrected on the 0 feedback looks like all the automatic bids were the other bidder. I think if its legit we would see feedback on it fairly soon. The seller had another una for sale but that and all his other auction items disappeared today....either he flush with cash or flush with embarrassment having seen this thread on silver forum uncovering his antics 😅

Edited January 12, 2020 by Realwealthuprising

[Pipers]

I read this thread, obviously people are getting excited with all the 'profits' they are going to make. 

It certainly looks like shill bidding on Ebay for the said restrike of the Una and the Lion.

There are a couple of points i would make.

1 Who the f-ck would pay £20,000 for a coin without a middle man.  People on here compain about being ripped off for £20 never mind £20,000. 

2    As a seller it would be really easy to rip a buyer off with this coin through Ebay.   I will not say how to do it on here though I am sure you will know how to do it and if you don't, just think for a bit  .  It is my advise do not pay that amount for anything on Ebay! 

Not everyone is honest and i am not for one minute suggesting the sellers of these Una restikes are dishonest but at these prices i would want a 3rd party expert at both our costs for my comfort and reasurance. 

[Melon]

35 minutes ago, Pipers said:

I read this thread, obviously people are getting excited with all the 'profits' they are going to make. 

It certainly looks like shill bidding on Ebay for the said restrike of the Una and the Lion.

There are a couple of points i would make.

1 Who the f-ck would pay £20,000 for a coin without a middle man.  People on here compain about being ripped off for £20 never mind £20,000. 

2    As a seller it would be really easy to rip a buyer off with this coin through Ebay.   I will not say how to do it on here though I am sure you will know how to do it and if you don't, just think for a bit  .  It is my advise do not pay that amount for anything on Ebay! 

Not everyone is honest and i am not for one minute suggesting the sellers of these Una restikes are dishonest but at these prices i would want a 3rd party expert at both our costs for my comfort and reasurance. 

Most of the people commenting don't have one, so lets not dismiss their views as "getting excited with all the profits"... 

As has been explained multiple times now, it doesn't really look like shill bidding at all. It just looks like bidding.

Just because you and I wouldn't buy something for £20k on eBay doesn't mean nobody would. Where else can someone buy it? eBay buyer protection is top notch though, I'd be more worried selling through eBay. 

 

[BrumChris]

56 minutes ago, Melon said:

Most of the people commenting don't have one, so lets not dismiss their views as "getting excited with all the profits"... 

As has been explained multiple times now, it doesn't really look like shill bidding at all. It just looks like bidding.

Just because you and I wouldn't buy something for £20k on eBay doesn't mean nobody would. Where else can someone buy it? eBay buyer protection is top notch though, I'd be more worried selling through eBay. 

 

Indeed. I'm amazed that people will pay that for a copy which RM might just reissue in years to come - Kew Gardens! - but it only takes one or two with the spare cash. 

I'd just like to see some physical auctions or second hand ones up with dealers.

 

[Kman]

Time will tell what will happen with the price and if the bids are genuine

Personally I hope they are and I think it's wonderful if people have made such a profit on a modern coin (albeit drawing from a historic design)

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Kman

[Paul]

23 hours ago, Paul said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Una-and-the-Lion-2019-UK-2oz-Gold-Proof-Coin-Limited-Edition-225-Very-Rare/303441903449?hash=item46a68bff59:g:1tAAAOSw64ZeGlia

"Lets hope this is a natural auction with no jiggerypokery going on with this one to meddle with the price "

https://www.ebay.co.uk/bfl/viewbids/303441903449?item=303441903449&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565

Well its been live for less than a day, x4 unique bidders, all bidding over the start bid of £13,500 

Look like we cannot follow the bidder/IDs/feedback scores as the seller has made it a "private" listing

https://www.ebay.co.uk/bfl/viewbids/303441903449?item=303441903449&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565

[goldmember44]

I got the Harrington & Byrne advert in the post today for a £299 silver Una. I personally think it's a shame that they are flooding the market with 150 coins priced at this level, just as it is appreciating very nicely on eBay. One sold for £400 today. Now, these 150 will have to "work through the system" as well, and who knows how many flippers would buy it, just to sell it on eBay for £10 or £20 profit....it could put a damper on appreciation for the time being.

[sovereignsteve]

44 minutes ago, goldmember44 said:

I got the Harrington & Byrne advert in the post today for a £299 silver Una. I personally think it's a shame that they are flooding the market with 150 coins priced at this level, just as it is appreciating very nicely on eBay. One sold for £400 today. Now, these 150 will have to "work through the system" as well, and who knows how many flippers would buy it, just to sell it on eBay for £10 or £20 profit....it could put a damper on appreciation for the time being.

That's the game, c'est la vie.

Also ebay is a strange place, there are loads on offer substantially less than £400

[HelpingHands]

If I was selling a coin for £20,000 on ebay Id have that money withdrawn out of paypal to newly set up bank account and then transferred sharpish.

Any scam buyers would not be getting a refund.

[Paul]

http://www.watchcount.com/mw2.php?bkw=Una+and+the+Lion+2019+UK+2oz+Gold+Proof+Coin+(Limited+Edition+225)+Very+Rare&bcat=0&bcts=&sfsb=Show+Me!&csbin=auc&bslr=&bnp=&bxp=#serp

Current Gold Una & Lion on auction has x47 watches on it already - lots of folk following these auction sales

[AurumArgenti]

2 hours ago, Paul said:

http://www.watchcount.com/mw2.php?bkw=Una+and+the+Lion+2019+UK+2oz+Gold+Proof+Coin+(Limited+Edition+225)+Very+Rare&bcat=0&bcts=&sfsb=Show+Me!&csbin=auc&bslr=&bnp=&bxp=#serp

Current Gold Una & Lion on auction has x47 watches on it already - lots of folk following these auction sales

Watches don't really mean much on eBay.🙂

[sovereignsteve]

2 hours ago, Paul said:

Current Gold Una & Lion on auction has x47 watches on it already - lots of folk following these auction sale

yes it's the new top spectator sport. So much so, I have heard that Sky Sports are putting in a bid for it.

[Paul]

https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-victoria-gold-proof-una-and-the-lion-5-pounds-1839-pr64-deep-cameo-pcgs-/a/3081-32248.s?ic16=ViewItem-Auction-Archive-MostActive-112917

The original PR64 Una & Lion sold with Heritage in USA yesterday for $690,000 😱😱😱😨😨

The other PF61 Una & Lion sold for $300,000

https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/victoria-gold-proof-una-and-the-lion-5-pounds-1839-pr61-ultra-cameo-ngc-/a/3081-32249.s?ic16=ViewItem-BrowseTabs-Auction-Archive-ThisAuction-120115

[Zhorro]

Before it was issued, I think very few people anticipated the 2oz gold Una and the Lion being sold for £20,000+.  I certainly didn’t, and I bet the people that bought the five gold 50ps a year ago (mintage of 75) are feeling a bit sick!

But this now raises an interesting question as to what happens when the next Great Engravers gold 2oz is issued...

It would not be unreasonable to expect it to sell out within minutes and for the secondary market price to immediately rise to £8,000, or £12,000, or £15,000, if not more but let’s be conservative (assuming that there is a similar mintage to the Una and the Lion and that it is a classic design).  Therefore, presumably everyone (and their families and friends) are now saving up for the second one in the series as financially it should make more sense to buy five of the second issue (at £3,995 each) rather than one of the Una and the Lion for £20,000+.

I will be sitting this one out, but it should be fun to watch!

But there is also a danger for the Royal Mint that sales of other issues will fall off as people save for this second and future issues - why buy a gold 50p that might increase in value by £100 when there is a coin that could increase by more than £15,000?  Whilst the Great Engravers series has caused a lot of excitement and hype, ultimately it may have a very detrimental impact on the future of GB numismatic gold coins (e.g. lower and lower mintages offset by more and more issues).

[AndrewSL76]

Coin Cabinet have just announced their Auction 13. The preview list includes the attached...

 

[goldmember44]

37 minutes ago, Zhorro said:

Before it was issued, I think very few people anticipated the 2oz gold Una and the Lion being sold for £20,000+.  I certainly didn’t, and I bet the people that bought the five gold 50ps a year ago (mintage of 75) are feeling a bit sick!

But this now raises an interesting question as to what happens when the next Great Engravers gold 2oz is issued...

It would not be unreasonable to expect it to sell out within minutes and for the secondary market price to immediately rise to £8,000, or £12,000, or £15,000, if not more but let’s be conservative (assuming that there is a similar mintage to the Una and the Lion and that it is a classic design).  Therefore, presumably everyone (and their families and friends) are now saving up for the second one in the series as financially it should make more sense to buy five of the second issue (at £3,995 each) rather than one of the Una and the Lion for £20,000+.

I will be sitting this one out, but it should be fun to watch!

But there is also a danger for the Royal Mint that sales of other issues will fall off as people save for this second and future issues - why buy a gold 50p that might increase in value by £100 when there is a coin that could increase by more than £15,000?  Whilst the Great Engravers series has caused a lot of excitement and hype, ultimately it may have a very detrimental impact on the future of GB numismatic gold coins (e.g. lower and lower mintages offset by more and more issues).

Well.. all good points, however I don't anticipate other editions of the Great Engravers to become as valuable as the Una and the Lion... they might be great too, and also sought after, but the Una really is a one-off and there is only one coin that can be the real champion... others will follow but not quite attain the same fame. No doubt the subsequent issues will also be good investments, but unlikely to become as expensive as the Una.

[Paul]

1 hour ago, AndrewSL76 said:

Coin Cabinet have just announced their Auction 13. The preview list includes the attached...

 

This will be the one to watch, first one in specialist coin sale, away from fleabay, I'm still holding mine, seeing what a 70 perfect sells for sets a bench mark

 

[sovereignsteve]

It looks like some or all of these ebay auctions and BINs have been genuine sales.

I did hear a whisper that a well known dealer has been buying them so had a look at the feedback profiles and the u***e(4550) buyer is him, he has feedback from one of the BIN sales and his feedback total matches.

Edited January 14, 2020 by sovereignsteve

[Fivepoundfred]

It would be interesting to know if there were any quality issues with any of these coins ? Not sure if the RM are improving their quality control but the last two gold proof £5 i have had from them have been perfect, maybe i was just lucky ?

 

[*tada*]

19 minutes ago, Fivepoundfred said:

It would be interesting to know if there were any quality issues with any of these coins ? Not sure if the RM are improving their quality control but the last two gold proof £5 i have had from them have been perfect, maybe i was just lucky ?

 

Heard a lot of quality issues causing delays.

[Paul]

On 14/01/2020 at 09:31, Paul said:

https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-victoria-gold-proof-una-and-the-lion-5-pounds-1839-pr64-deep-cameo-pcgs-/a/3081-32248.s?ic16=ViewItem-Auction-Archive-MostActive-112917

The original PR64 Una & Lion sold with Heritage in USA yesterday for $690,000 😱😱😱😨😨

The other PF61 Una & Lion sold for $300,000

https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/victoria-gold-proof-una-and-the-lion-5-pounds-1839-pr61-ultra-cameo-ngc-/a/3081-32249.s?ic16=ViewItem-BrowseTabs-Auction-Archive-ThisAuction-120115

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7888383/Victorian-era-5-gold-coin-showing-20-year-old-Queen-leading-lion-sells-record-530-000.html

The original Una & Lion sale from a few days back is making national headlines now

[Paul]

14 hours ago, AndrewSL76 said:

Coin Cabinet have just announced their Auction 13. The preview list includes the attached...

 

@AndrewSL76 if you dont mind, what guess(est)imate does Andreas put on it ? .......just asking for a friend  😆

[AndrewSL76]

The email only confirmed the auction was coming and a view of some of the items. 

If you PM me your email address I can forward it to you.

 

 

[Guest]

19 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

It looks like some or all of these ebay auctions and BINs have been genuine sales.

I did hear a whisper that a well known dealer has been buying them so had a look at the feedback profiles and the u***e(4550) buyer is him, he has feedback from one of the BIN sales and his feedback total matches.

i'm sure thats what I said a few pages ago, glad to have been vindicated ))

[ShaolinStacker]

Still haven't received mine yet. They're saying it will go out next week. Said they are waiting for packaging