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Documentary: Untold Dark History of the Gold Industry


firestacker

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But does it really matter? Are you going to stop buying their gold if their price is lower because of your conscience?

i’m not saying it’s right what they do .. but in our capitalist society I doubt many people care. 

💷 💷 Check out my Wanted adds and message me direct if you can help 💷 💷 

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There is probably very little in our world that is truly free of any sort of exploitation and corruption. 

Not excusing anyone, just saying that it's the nature of the world system we presently live under.

Also, I'm not sure I have any answers other than don't buy anything you really don't need, and only buy that from sources that seem relatively decent and honest. 

And be decent and honest in your own dealings, and how you behave toward your fellow humans.

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Saw this last night, I doubt it is just argor and metalor but a whole wide range of refiners and companies. 

It is very sad that kids and adults go deep underground and risk all for small amounts of gold which we stack and think nothing off. Mercury dumped back into the rivers and the whole process of obtaining the yellow metal is not really eco friendly or friendly for that matter.

 

I don't think there is such thing as clean gold and however sad this documentary was to watch, I still will stack for my personal selfish reasons.

It is something which all of us should be conscious of and hope that one day directly or indirectly we can give back in someway to the miners.

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47 minutes ago, Tn21 said:

It is very sad that kids and adults go deep underground and risk all for small amounts of gold which we stack and think nothing off.

There was a really good documentary, it may have even been the BBC, about groups of orphaned street kids (very young boys) in an Indian city. They'd go into a sewer at night - well one would go down and hand up buckets of sewage to the others. Then they'd pan the stuff for gold. Gold being worn and handled daily in India they did (comparatively) OK out of it - enough to have a roof over their head (even if that's all it was, a bare concrete 'room' they all slept in) and enough to eat without begging or stealing. Most importantly though the older kids who were too big to get into the sewer mentored and protected the young boys and negotiated a fair rate for the gold. No doubt whatsoever there are Fagin types about, but the ones shown were protecting them from those Fagin types and abuse and rape etc of a life on the street.

Another one, it may have been part of the same series, that wasn't quite so 'uplifting' was about the folks, mainly widowed women and young children iirc, who actually live on the massive rubbish dumps and scavenge. Apart from food (!) quite a big enterprise was reclaiming metals from circuit boards which meant a very crude use of fire and chemicals, leaving the most toxic pools imaginable right where they lived, let alone what they were breathing in and handling at the time.

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It's appears humans will always have the ability to exploit fellow humans to the nth degree, sadly I don't see this changing. Yet again big corporations are found wanting. 

“Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.” Oscillate Wildly

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On 13/11/2019 at 03:22, kimchi said:

There was a really good documentary, it may have even been the BBC, about groups of orphaned street kids (very young boys) in an Indian city. They'd go into a sewer at night - well one would go down and hand up buckets of sewage to the others. Then they'd pan the stuff for gold. Gold being worn and handled daily in India they did (comparatively) OK out of it - enough to have a roof over their head (even if that's all it was, a bare concrete 'room' they all slept in) and enough to eat without begging or stealing. Most importantly though the older kids who were too big to get into the sewer mentored and protected the young boys and negotiated a fair rate for the gold. No doubt whatsoever there are Fagin types about, but the ones shown were protecting them from those Fagin types and abuse and rape etc of a life on the street.

Another one, it may have been part of the same series, that wasn't quite so 'uplifting' was about the folks, mainly widowed women and young children iirc, who actually live on the massive rubbish dumps and scavenge. Apart from food (!) quite a big enterprise was reclaiming metals from circuit boards which meant a very crude use of fire and chemicals, leaving the most toxic pools imaginable right where they lived, let alone what they were breathing in and handling at the time.

This is why the Good Book tells us that the "true religion" is to visit the orphan and the widow in their distress.

In other words, it should be our mission in life to help such people, and don't leave them to live like this. (Full disclosure: I'm not very good at living the way I should)

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14 hours ago, RacerCool said:

This is why the Good Book tells us that the "true religion" is to visit the orphan and the widow in their distress.

In other words, it should be our mission in life to help such people, and don't leave them to live like this. (Full disclosure: I'm not very good at living the way I should)

Is this good book you speak of the “Financial Times” by any chance?

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This is no different to any number of industries, from cattle farming, palm oil plantation, rare earth mining, ect. Always in these low regulation countries, always at a local environmental cost. Low pay, poor working conditions, maximum profit for the lowest overhead. This is the fundamental nature of economic activity. Increase working conditions, profits fall. Has anyone considered that if working conditions increase, the work will be not profitable? What then happens, do people starve? Perhaps this is better than nothing.

What are the rest of the countries inhabitants doing for work. Why are some of those people choosing to work in these conditions. Is it exploitation if someone takes up the offer and chooses to work in those conditions?

On the environmental destruction - does it really matter? The only constant with the environment is change. Forests become fields and cities, cities and fields become forests again. Eventually. What is more important to you - preserving the environment - may not be as important to the guy finding the gold - he wants to eat.   

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2 hours ago, KDave said:

This is no different to any number of industries, from cattle farming, palm oil plantation, rare earth mining, ect. Always in these low regulation countries, always at a local environmental cost. Low pay, poor working conditions, maximum profit for the lowest overhead. This is the fundamental nature of economic activity. Increase working conditions, profits fall. Has anyone considered that if working conditions increase, the work will be not profitable? What then happens, do people starve? Perhaps this is better than nothing.

What are the rest of the countries inhabitants doing for work. Why are some of those people choosing to work in these conditions. Is it exploitation if someone takes up the offer and chooses to work in those conditions?

On the environmental destruction - does it really matter? The only constant with the environment is change. Forests become fields and cities, cities and fields become forests again. Eventually. What is more important to you - preserving the environment - may not be as important to the guy finding the gold - he wants to eat.   

I thought the folk who were mining in the section in the DRC were doing so under duress? 

“Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.” Oscillate Wildly

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1 hour ago, Stu said:

I thought the folk who were mining in the section in the DRC were doing so under duress? 

Perhaps they are, but there are no slave markets as far as I am aware. How does one get into that situation where you are working under duress, kidnapping? 

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35 minutes ago, KDave said:

Perhaps they are, but there are no slave markets as far as I am aware. How does one get into that situation where you are working under duress, kidnapping? 

https://www.freetheslaves.net/where-we-work/congo/

looking up the barrel of a kalanakov or with the threat or act of rape usually makes folks complicit. 

“Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.” Oscillate Wildly

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Just to note that the Modern Slavery Act 2015 requires all companies operating in the UK to be compliant with the Act (as per s.54) and have statements explaining how they have achieved compliance.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/649906/Transparency_in_Supply_Chains_A_Practical_Guide_2017.pdf

Any company selling PMs needs to also comply.

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55 minutes ago, Stu said:

https://www.freetheslaves.net/where-we-work/congo/

looking up the barrel of a kalanakov or with the threat or act of rape usually makes folks complicit. 

Right, people (criminal gangs?) are forcing people to work, kidnapping, raping, killing. Gold has as much to do with that as Morcambe bay cockles.

Where does the solution to this perceived problem lie. Is it our fault for buying minted gold? Is it the fault of Metalor for buying unprocessed gold? Is it the fault of the 'mining company' using slave labour? Is it the fault of the government of that nation that allows its people to be exploited. 

The important questions in my view - how important is this to you, against every other problem in the world. How much effort are you willing to spend on it. Will your efforts make any difference at all - and at what cost. We may know the solution, because we live in the product which is the solution to this kind of thing. Perhaps we should put our energy into improving our own part of the world instead of sacrificing it on others who do not share our ideals.  

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i am highlighting there is a slave trade when you were not "aware " of one. 

Some folk would be happy to buy any product, regardless of where it's come from or. The story behind it. Folk have to be guided by their own morals.

“Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.” Oscillate Wildly

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Let's take this viewpoint to its natural conclusion. Unless any issue directly affects me or anyone I care about then I am not interested.

The Noweign government of all organisations , though using its sovereign wealth fund, ( one of the biggest balance sheets in the world) has exerted  its influence and persuaded companies/states who they invest in to be more responsible shall we say. They could have taken the approach  of the majority and said "**** em" let's make as much for ourselves regardless.

 

“Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.” Oscillate Wildly

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The government has imposed its moral values on our purchases hence the issues presented are a non issue in the UK. You don't need to worry about it.

If I had money and power/influence akin to the Norwegian sovereign fund, George Soros, Donald Trump, Tim Cook - then perhaps I might worry about asserting my preferred morality and values on other people by where I spend my money or point my business, and indeed in this example (and relevant to Tim Cook) who I don't spend my money with or platform/do business with. 

I could care less what happens to people 1000 miles away while I have a multitude of problems on my doorstep for example. There are problems in my own country that I can spend my time and money before I start to worry about the employment conditions of third world nations. I wish other people that lived here would do the same. I really don't understand where this capacity to ignore local issues while holding an apparently endless well of international interventionism at the expense of everyone around them that certain people have comes from. Regardless people don't need to worry about this kind of thing now, as we have the Modern Slavery act 2015 to set our standards for us. 

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Last year the Global Slavery Index published it's most recent report (note the reports are bi-annual - so the next one is due in 2020). It confirmed findings that 40 million people around the world are being held as modern day slaves. It sets out findings that the majority are in forced labour - 24.9 million - with 15.4 million held in forced marriage. It noted that 70% of all those living as slaves are women and girls.

Slavery is a worldwide issue and it effects the UK too. We are not just talking about adults and children forced to work in gold mines or diamond mines. We are talking about adults and children forced to work in car washes in the UK, in nail salons in the UK, in brothels in the UK, in poultry farms in the UK, in cannabis farms in the UK. Modern Slavery is an absolute scourge of modern society.

Stu rightly explains that governments and institutions and individuals that could do more should do more.

KDave rightly explains that we need to get the UK in order and that there are far too many issues in this beautiful Isle that need to be examined and fixed first.

I agree with both these perspectives but offer a middle ground.

What needs to be explained further, in my opinion, is that the figures outlined in the GSI include the UK (as I alluded to somewhat boringly above).

See: https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/slavery-uk/

In my view, we need international interventions in order to stop issues occurring on the streets in the UK. People have proven over decades that the sea border of the UK is not a deterrent and people have proven over decades that hard immigration policies do not act as a deterrent. If Theresa May's 'Hostile Environment' policy of 2012 to present has not stopped people coming or being brought here, what will? I suggest that if conditions in other countries were appropriate to the basic human needs, people would not risk everything to leave their home and seek sanctuary, or fortune, or health, or a future overseas.

In my very humble opinion, helping develop other nations and sharing wealth does precisely this. In helping other nations, the UK actually helps itself. 

 

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These problems in the UK are brought in, it is not the English or the Welsh that are working as slaves. The best way to stop slavery in the UK is to close the borders - we already have the systems set up over generations to support and protect freedom, workers rights, minimum wage, ect. These things didn't develop because of the whims of a rich foreigners spending habits as people would like to think in this gold mining case. It took generations of time to get to where we are.

These values and morals about slavery are not shared around the world, is it any wonder that such ideas are being eroded in the UK as the world comes here?

At least we know that we are not buying slave gold from the third world though right. 

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