When you sell....

[AuricGoldfinger]

Just wondering for those guys who have sold their full stacks to either pay off the mortgage or just cash in on a profit etc, do you have to explain where the gold came from?

For example when you get a mortgage they want to know where every penny came from. Is “I sold all my gold” a good enough answer, or is anyone at any point going to want to see proof of purchase for the gold?

I know there’s probably only a few members who may have been in this situation as I’m talking maybe £10,000 or more in one go. Any thoughts would be very helpful.

[Gildeon]

I think the banks ask questions when they give you money (like new mortgage) not when you pay them back.

[AurumArgenti]

6 minutes ago, Gildeon said:

I think the banks ask questions when they give you money (like new mortgage) not when you pay them back.

Banks want to know when you make a reasonable cash deposit where it came from. Let alone paying off a mortgage. Money laundering laws by the government , they don't want to miss out on more tax revenue. 

[shawy2510]

Keep any receipts if purchased from dealers even if you sell them & buy more. Shows you have purchased it all & selling it for those purposes

[AuricGoldfinger]

@AurumArgenti my point exactly, you can’t do anything without the banks wanting to know all the details. 

Also something i forgot to mention, do dealers ever want to know where the gold came from or can you just walk in with 50oz and leave with £60k in your bank?

Purchases from dealers - easy to prove. But other purchases like on the forum or made privately and purchases with cash are hard to prove took place.

[KitboyE17]

10 minutes ago, AuricGoldfinger said:

my point exactly, you can’t do anything without the banks wanting to know all the details. 

Just lie - “I sold my car” etc. It’s not dishonest - just not their business  

 

[sovereignsteve]

The banks are easy to fob off, they don't really care where the money came from if you're giving it to them. However just be aware you will need more detail if the tax man comes calling. Receipts etc essential.

[AuricGoldfinger]

@sovereignsteve that would be my main concern regarding private deals that are realistically hard to prove took place

[Ansel]

We paid our mortgage off earlier this year over 4 months with savings and a windfall. Paying cash raised questions, not that it was a problem as we had the appropriate paperwork if needed. However paying cash into my account (different bank) and then transferring it was not questioned at all. I would have thought that looked more dodgy? Anyway, we just said we had been selling a lot of Lego and other items as we were going minimalist. The lady looked a little perplexed but didn’t ask anything else. 

[sovereignsteve]

7 minutes ago, Ansel said:

We paid our mortgage off earlier this year over 4 months with savings and a windfall. Paying cash raised questions, not that it was a problem as we had the appropriate paperwork if needed. However paying cash into my account (different bank) and then transferring it was not questioned at all. I would have thought that looked more dodgy? Anyway, we just said we had been selling a lot of Lego and other items as we were going minimalist. The lady looked a little perplexed but didn’t ask anything else. 

They are not too bothered about transferring money across accounts, unless it's going offshore or off-mainstream etc. It's still in the syatem and can easily be tracked.

They do however take an interest when you try to withdraw a large amount of cash; they rail against this as they are losing control.

[Miganto]

It's the same as an earlier topic about banks and their checks - they want to make sure you aren't being fraudulant to cover themselves because they are audited.  If you say 'this money is fine' then they can write down 'they said this money is fine' and then the issue is on you if you are being fraudulant and someone (more tax/government based) comes looking.  They don't actually care if you sold a car, gold, borrowed from a friend in all honesty, they just want to make sure they won't be in trouble.

You can't blame the banks here, they're doing it because people are ***** and the banks are audited and have to pay out millions when it goes wrong.  If you were a bank, you'd do these checks to make sure you don't have to pay out when you find out your customer has been a ****.

They do care if you can pay your monthly amount and will look into that more ofc.

[sovereignsteve]

3 minutes ago, Miganto said:

You can't blame the banks here, they're doing it because people are ***** and the banks are audited and have to pay out millions when it goes wrong.  If you were a bank, you'd do these checks to make sure you don't have to pay out when you find out your customer has been a ****.

not sure how the banks can lose out if the customer is paying large amounts of cash to them, wherever it came from. if they are suspicious all they have to do is report to the exchequer and their duty is done.

[Tn21]

Great pieces of advice, I've ran out of likes and emojies to like some of the comments.

The receipts factor is something I didn't consider. Only issue I have is 90% of purchases have been via the forum.

 

 

[Miganto]

9 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

not sure how the banks can lose out if the customer is paying large amounts of cash to them, wherever it came from. if they are suspicious all they have to do is report to the exchequer and their duty is done.

Because if the money given is gathered is being laundered, it's on the banks.

[Serendipity]

This is not a big problem for me because even when buying from multiple dealers I can get printouts of my past orders to confirm proof of purchase. However, I can see problems might arise when it comes to sell if you’ve been buying precious metals from private dealers without adequate paperwork. I know that people are sometimes annoyed by the strict anti-money laundering laws but you need to put yourself in the position of someone whose entire stack has been stolen and sold without questions being asked or checks being made.

[AuricGoldfinger]

Im glad this topic has generated so much interest and thanks for the replies so far. I have always thought having mostly mixed date sovereigns and proof of purchase for maybe over half is enough to keep anyone sniffing too closely but only if I sell the half I have proof for and then perhaps wait a while and sell the other half - using the same proof of purchase if I am ever asked. Its just getting to the point where I am almost reluctant to purchase other than from a main dealer where I can easily provide proof of when and where it was purchased come selling time.

[sovereignsteve]

50 minutes ago, Miganto said:

Because if the money given is gathered is being laundered, it's on the banks.

yes i understand that but only if they then let go of it. If they have the money in their hands and report as suspicious, the "authorities" can then say it's fine or impound it.

[KDave]

I has to provide proof I bought the gold I sold to buy my house, most gold I buy is online from bullion dealers so it was simple case of trawling emails for proof of purchase. The bank asked for proof I think because they were lending and wanted to know where the deposit had magically come from. 

[Roy]

@KDave, seriously?

I'm not questioning you but the situation. How dare they?

It's cash. It's guaranteed by the BOE.

All this KYC/AML nonsense is getting silly.

 

 

[AuricGoldfinger]

@KDave @Roy this is exactly the problem. 

[KDave]

6 minutes ago, Roy said:

@KDave, seriously?

I'm not questioning you but the situation. How dare they?

It's cash. It's guaranteed by the BOE.

All this KYC/AML nonsense is getting silly.

 

 

Yes sir they asked for proof of where the money came from officially and I provided. Anti laundering rules I am sure of it, this was back in 2017. Not sure what the truth is but I thought that this stuff came in as property was being used to clean large amounts of dodgy money especially in the capital. 

[Roy]

It's a good question @AuricGoldfinger.

It's only a problem if you want it to be. Sell bits and bobs privately, off the record. You can do a big sale HGM/Atkinsons etc, to generate paperwork.

I'm not teaching you to suck eggs 😁

[KDave]

Consider a homogeneous portfolio of metals, say 'best value' or 'random year' of any coin, when you are accumulating. If the capital gains rules change this is valuable. When the time comes to sell, use the most modern receipt as proof of purchase. 

Buy sovereigns from the forum, use best value receipt as proof of purchase. 

Buy a sovereign today for 300. Sell in the far future for 1000 when capital gains had been removed? Use receipt from a purchase of 900 best value sovereigns the year before. 

Suck eggs 

[Lr103]

1 hour ago, Roy said:

@KDave, seriously?

I'm not questioning you but the situation. How dare they?

It's cash. It's guaranteed by the BOE.

All this KYC/AML nonsense is getting silly.

 

 

When a bank wants to know where the money came from in this situation, it's first and foremost to ensure the new deposit is not from another loan. They need to make sure the borrower actually has a cash deposit and is not over leveraged. I can't see cash from PM sales being an issue.