Our Money

[KDave]

11 minutes ago, Martlet said:

There is a lot of focus on purchasing power of our money, which seems to overlook this applies to government and businesses too: they must pay more nominally for labour and services as the purchasing power is reduced.  As long as people can approximately keep pace with inflation its not so important any more.  The problem of lost purchasing power is outweighed by the potential for economic growth, now bound by monetary policy.  Anyone saying they are poorer today than 30, 50, 100 years ago should try living as then and soon realise its not all just about nominal wealth. Trivially priced light, heating, modern appliances, advancement in technology for labour saving devices and leisure are overlooked.  What was once a luxury is everyday, what was once unimaginable is common place. 

How much of that advancement is monetary? Keynes would attribute a great deal to it but it's not the case. Look to the 1800's gold standard and rising standards of living and it's the same picture. Both can't be right.

How much progress has been lost through mis allocation thanks to easy money. Perhaps wasteful boom bust cycles are holding us back and causing greater suffering than a gold standard ever could.  

[sixgun]

1 hour ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

so far everything can be explained with the use of rational decisions within politics.

on the flip side, creators of videos of this type of content have much to gain by giving half the story. it is good versus evil, you must stand with us and be on the side of good?

you are not accepting currency for what it is:

a means with which to trade.

I have tried giving examples of how expanding the currency works.

if you are still unable to make the distinction between currency and money then it is you that will suffer. the whole world is not going to go backwards because you can't make the step to move forwards.

the people enslave themselves with their idea of 'something for nothing'.

honesty have to come from the people.

HH

i don't intend to be side tracked by claims i don't understand differences between money and currency.

You have not explained why for example the US Government would borrow currency from the PRIVATE Federal Reserve Bank with interest attached when the US Federal Government could and has created the currency itself with no interest attached.

What is the benefit of the Government borrowing it from a bank - when the bank simply creates that currency by adding digits to a computer database?  

The UK Government did this as recently as the 'Bradbury' pound shortly before the outbreak of WWI. This was  with the objective of stabilising the banking system

[Martlet]

1 hour ago, KDave said:

How much of that advancement is monetary? Keynes would attribute a great deal to it but it's not the case. Look to the 1800's gold standard and rising standards of living and it's the same picture. Both can't be right.

How much progress has been lost through mis allocation thanks to easy money. Perhaps wasteful boom bust cycles are holding us back and causing greater suffering than a gold standard ever could.  

Of course advancement happened before while on the gold standard, as did inflation, depressions, etc. Remember that the largest depression occurred while on the gold standard, and in UK at least recovery was by accelerated by leaving.  The boom bust cycles are an unfortunate side effect, usually from short term politics rather than medium-long term strategic economic investment, and progress, improving standards of living continues after a few short years. 

[HawkHybrid]

11 minutes ago, sixgun said:

i don't intend to be side tracked by claims i don't understand differences between money and currency.

 

you insist that the bank are printing money.

if you understood the difference between

currency and money you would not say this.

everything you say is about the banks

printing money. this is simply not true.

 

all your questions stem from using currency

(as worded) when you want to say money.

that is not acknowledging the difference

between the two.

18 minutes ago, sixgun said:

US Government would borrow currency from the PRIVATE Federal Reserve Bank

this is not true. the government is not

borrowing currency. they have control

over expanding the currency. they are

borrowing 'currency that can be spent'

(the equivalence of money). they are

borrowing from sources such as future

taxes. the banks are merely a printing press.

the government tells them how much to print

and they do so. they charge interest as a

payment for the service of using their

printing press. the government could set up

it's own printing press. it chooses to not do

so. the tiny cost of using the printing press

is minuscule in the big picture. all this

claims of fraud over a molehill.

politics determine government spending.

politics determine what is taken from taxes

both current and future to be spent now.

 

when governments spend newly created

currency, they are siphoning off purchasing

power from the existing system. this causes

the purchasing power per £ to drop. it's all

politics. the banks merely charge for the use

of their system. the interest charged is the

banks way of siphoning off the purchasing

power of the existing system. the currency

means nothing, it's the purchasing power

associated with the currency that is valuable.

 

HH

[sixgun]

@HawkHybrid You are under some pretty big misconceptions. 

The Federal Reserve notes are not printed by the Federal Reserve Bank. They are printed by The Bureau of Engraving and Printing. This is department of the US Treasury. 

https://www.moneyfactory.gov/uscurrency.html

There is no service (which you are calling 'interest') for using a Federal Reserve printing press b/c no such printing press exists. In any case the vast majority of the currency - it is USD - this is currency - the vast majority of this is never printed - so does the Federal Reserve provide this at no cost? It doesn't - it charges interest.

Why is the US Treasury printing Federal Reserve notes? - the Fed is a private bank - why doesn't the US Treasury print US Treasury notes? 

Here is an old note printed by the Treasury. 

What we see now are Federal Reserve notes which the US Treasury prints for the Federal Reserve Bank and then the US government borrows the currency it just printed. 

If the US Treasury prints the currency and only pays the Fed the cost of printing (which you now know it doesn't do) - then why does the US Treasury issue Treasuries? 

The US government prints the currency for peanuts and can add digits to a computer for less than peanuts - so why issue bonds on which it pays a yield?

Just create the notes which the people can use as a mechanism of exchange. Cut the Federal Reserve out of the equation all together. Think of the $trillions that would have been saved.

i am going to leave it there - others can decide for themselves.

[Michal]

10 hours ago, Martlet said:

Of course advancement happened before while on the gold standard, as did inflation, depressions, etc. Remember that the largest depression occurred while on the gold standard, and in UK at least recovery was by accelerated by leaving.  The boom bust cycles are an unfortunate side effect, usually from short term politics rather than medium-long term strategic economic investment, and progress, improving standards of living continues after a few short years. 

Remember why there was largest depression? Banks printed notes (called banknotes ) stating that you have gold(in to oblivion)but unfortunately they "forgot" to have gold to cover all of them. Not mention bubble made on stock market with unnatural "banknotes" supply. And when people realized there are no real money in there, PUFF, everything is gone. Sounds familiar ?

Edit

More than that they needed black swan event to legitimized FED. Otherwise scam wouldn't work.

[HawkHybrid]

9 hours ago, sixgun said:

The Federal Reserve notes are not printed by the Federal Reserve Bank. They are printed by The Bureau of Engraving and Printing.

 

this is not important. pcworld does not make

apple ipads. so what? it still sells them for a

profit?

the world is flexible. you always choose to

take the most unimportant parts and blow it

completely out of proportion. stop being

bogged down by insignificant details and

look at the bigger picture.

zimbabwe moved from the zimbabwe dollar

(which collapsed) to trading with gold. then

within years of the nations currency collapse,

they move to trading with us dollars.

the bigger picture is they moved to trading in

another fiat currency from an existing system

of trading using gold. the people chose to

move to currency from what many would

constitute close enough to money.

the technical mechanics of currency is not

important. what's important is that collectively

people chose to use the currency system over

a money system.

 

'war is delightful to those who have not

experienced it' erasmus.

 

who is likely to be more right? you with your

textbook definitions of money and currency.

or those who have lived through a currency

collapse and still choose to move back to

trading in currency?

 

HH

[sixgun]

1 hour ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

this is not important. pcworld does not make apple ipads. so what? it still sells them for a profit?

the world is flexible. you always choose to take the most unimportant parts and blow it completely out of proportion. stop being bogged down by insignificant details and look at the bigger picture.

zimbabwe moved from the zimbabwe dollar (which collapsed) to trading with gold. then within years of the nations currency collapse, they move to trading with us dollars.

the bigger picture is they moved to trading in another fiat currency from an existing system of trading using gold. the people chose to move to currency from what many would constitute close enough to money.

the technical mechanics of currency is not important. what's important is that collectively people chose to use the currency system over a money system.

'war is delightful to those who have not experienced it' erasmus.

who is likely to be more right? you with your textbook definitions of money and currency or those who have lived through a currency collapse and still choose to move back to trading in currency?

 

HH

i think this is an interesting and useful area to continue with - so i will. There is nothing wrong with currencies as a unit of counting - as a unit of exchange. i have and still from time-to-time trade currencies. 

To continue my piece on the Fed - the theory goes that the US Government needs funds and instructs the Treasury to issue bonds which the Fed buys. The Fed simply creates USD out of thin air to pay for these Treasury bonds which carry a yield.  It is said the Fed is a non-profit organisation. That it returns the profits it makes to the Treasury. All is well, no-one is profiteering and the Fed is serving a useful purpose. 

The issue is the US Government, which is supposed to represent the American people, has handed over control of the currency to a private banking system. The Federal Reserve system is a collection of regional banks and these are owned by the shareholders which are private banks. The Federal Reserve is a private bank. Although the Fed chairman is appointed by the President, the Fed and the Fed chairman are not under the control of the President or Congress. We have seen the Fed create boom and bust cycles again and again and again. We can see how banks profit from these cycles. The Fed has been resistant to audit - there have been many lies. There was an audit of sorts in 2011 - this identified that $16 trillion of secret handouts to the world banking system had occur. The Fed did this without approval of the US Government - $16 trillion were just created out of thin air and handed out to the banking cabal. If this has happened once it will have happened before. Here we have a private bank owned by private banks which can create currency at will and is unaccountable and except the once unaudited.

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/the-fed-audit

Currency is created by banks out of thin air. All currency is a debt instrument which these days is created out of thin air (for profit) by the banking cabal. Most of the currency is created by the 'High Street' banks. You take out a 25 year mortgage to buy your home. You will work for 25 years to pay back what a bank created with a few key strokes and if you don't the bank will take your home. 

People need a means of exchange - a barter system just wouldn't work in the modern world. We see coins sold on the forum and occasionally a swap might occur but these are rare. A currency is a good thing if it is well accepted and created in a responsible way - it doesn't matter if it is ultimately just created out of thin air. What is wrong is private banks have a monopoly on creating the currency out of thin air. i work for 25 years to pay off my mortgage - i manage to do this and i say i own my home. The bank has several £100 thousands at the end of this that i have paid them over the 25 years. i worked hard for 25 years to achieve this - what did the bank do for the pile of cash it created out of thin air with a few key strokes?

There is nothing wrong with currencies - where it goes wrong is when the wrong people are creating them. When private banks have a licence to print money they will over time acquire the world and all for a few key strokes. 

Thomas Jefferson: If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.

This happens in the majority of countries not just America. We are debt slaves - we are working for the banks to pay them back something they never really lent us in the first place - we are working for nothing - we are slaves

[Michal]

15 minutes ago, sixgun said:

i think this is an interesting and useful area of continue with - so i will. There is nothing wrong with currencies as a unit of counting - as a unit of exchange. i have and still from time-to-time trade currencies. 

To continue my piece on the Fed - the theory goes that the US Government needs funds and instructs the Treasury to issue bonds which the Fed buys. The Fed simply creates USD out of thin air to pay for these Treasury bonds which carry a yield.  It is said the Fed is a non-profit organisation. That it returns the profits it makes to the Treasury. All is well, no-one is profiteering and the Fed is serving a useful purpose. 

The issue is the US Government, which is supposed to represent the American people, has handed over control of the currency to a private banking system. The Federal Reserve system is a collection of regional banks and these are owned by the shareholders which are private banks. The Federal Reserve is a private bank. Although the Fed chairman is appointed by the President, the Fed and the Fed chairman are not under the control of the President or Congress. We have seen the Fed create boom and bust cycles again and again and again. We can see how banks profit from these cycles. The Fed has been resistant to audit - there have been many lies. There was an audit of sorts in 2011 - this identified that $16 trillion of secret handouts to the world banking system had occur. The Fed did this without approval of the US Government - $16 trillion were just created out of thin air and handed out to the banking cabal. If this has happened once it will have happened before. Here we have a private bank owned by private banks which can create currency at will and is unaccountable and except the once unaudited.

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/the-fed-audit

Currency is created by banks out of thin air. All currency is a debt instrument which these days is created out of thin air (for profit) by the banking cabal. Most of the currency is created by the 'High Street' banks. You take out a 25 year mortgage to buy your home. You will work for 25 years to pay back what a bank created with a few key strokes and if you don't the bank will take your home. 

People need a means of exchange - a barter system just wouldn't work in the modern world. We see coins sold on the forum and occasionally a swap might occur but these are rare. A currency is a good thing if it is well accepted and created in a responsible way - it doesn't matter if it is ultimately just created out of thin air. What is wrong is private banks have a monopoly on creating the currency out of thin air. i work for 25 years to pay off my mortgage - i manage to do this and i say i own my home. The bank has several £100 thousands at the end of this that i have paid them over the 25 years. i worked hard for 25 years to achieve this - what did the bank do for the pile of cash it created out of thin air with a few key strokes?

There is nothing wrong with currencies - where it goes wrong is when the wrong people are creating them. When private banks have a licence to print money they will over time acquire the world and all for a few key strokes. 

Thomas Jefferson: If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.

This happens in the majority of countries not just America. We are debt slaves - we are working for the banks to pay them back something they never really lent us in the first place - we are working for nothing - we are slaves

I was in process of writing exactly the same thing in essence. Thank You sixgun. I wish people would understand that subject more.  

[HawkHybrid]

2 minutes ago, sixgun said:

Currency is created by banks out of thin air.

 

currency with no purchasing power attached to it

is created out of thin air.

(this is an inherent design of the currency system)

the currency is then legalized by the appropriate

governments in order to attach purchasing power

to the units of currency. (think signing a cheque)

blank cheque no purchasing power, completed

and signed cheque now has purchasing power.

 

the exact same £10 note as printed has no

purchasing power when printed. it is only when

the government spends it that it gains purchasing

power. the process is like passing a qa test. there

are no modifications to the physical note. it just

gains purchasing power at the end of the process.

that's what makes currency so cheap to shuffle.

you don't need a government official sitting and

signing cheques. you can get whatever currency

flow you desire when ever you desire it at minimal

cost.

 

21 minutes ago, sixgun said:

where it goes wrong is when the wrong people are creating them.

currency(with purchasing power) is created by the

government. all the problems with inflation, etc

are political problems. you should be voicing your

concerns by exercising your freedom of speech,

right to vote etc. it is not the fault of the system.

if governments want to siphon off purchasing power

via inflation, they will do it regardless of what

system is in place. you're shooting the messenger.

the politics is what is enslaving people, not the banks.

 

HH

[MancunianStacker]

Then there is the missing $21Trillion that the mainstream media dare not touch:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.globalresearch.ca/the-pentagons-missing-trillions-what-you-need-to-know/5670869/amp

Hmmm. Could they just “print” a load of currency to pay for wars and keep it off the books??? Surely a Government wouldn’t cover up such antics, right?

You can cut the $ in half! 🍿 

 

[Michal]

14 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

currency with no purchasing power attached to it

is created out of thin air.

(this is an inherent design of the currency system)

the currency is then legalized by the appropriate

governments in order to attach purchasing power

to the units of currency. (think signing a cheque)

blank cheque no purchasing power, completed

and signed cheque now has purchasing power.

 

the exact same £10 note as printed has no

purchasing power when printed. it is only when

the government spends it that it gains purchasing

power. the process is like passing a qa test. there

are no modifications to the physical note. it just

gains purchasing power at the end of the process.

that's what makes currency so cheap to shuffle.

you don't need a government official sitting and

signing cheques. you can get whatever currency

flow you desire when ever you desire it at minimal

cost.

 

currency(with purchasing power) is created by the

government. all the problems with inflation, etc

are political problems. you should be voicing your

concerns by exercising your freedom of speech,

right to vote etc. it is not the fault of the system.

if governments want to siphon off purchasing power

via inflation, they will do it regardless of what

system is in place. you're shooting the messenger.

the politics is what is enslaving people, not the banks.

 

HH

You realy believe in that? Politicians are just puppets, they can't do nothing without currency and currency supplier truly own them. 

[HawkHybrid]

1 minute ago, Michal said:

You realy believe in that? Politicians are just puppets, they can't do nothing without currency and currency supplier truly own them. 

 

we all must work with the environment that we

find ourselves in.

how is spreading unimportant facts helping you

to improve your future?

 

HH

[sixgun]

8 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

we all must work with the environment that we find ourselves in. how is spreading unimportant facts helping you to improve your future?

HH

i think you are in another reality let alone environment to mine but it is useful others can see what has been posted - they can do their own research if they like and then decide for themselves.

[Michal]

25 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

we all must work with the environment that we

find ourselves in.

how is spreading unimportant facts helping you

to improve your future?

 

HH

Well thanks to other people spreading unimportant facts i got aware of them and got in to PM. To be honest thanks to PM in my possession I sleep better. I have a friend in Greece and do remember when they had riots he said he would give anything to feed his family.

I spoke with guy from Argentina and he said that for 1oz of silver you could feed your family for a week.

And none of them was expecting situation that they get in to. So awareness of those unimportant facts give me at least illusion  that i will have some kind of solution in event of such unbelievable situation. 

[MancunianStacker]

All currencies eventually go to Zero. The $ and £ are not the same $ and £ as of “launch” they are simply versions of it, gradually deteriorated from the original. They ended but were re-released at the same time to fool the citizens of their respective countries into thinking nothing had changed. Fine to use for exchange of goods day to day but useless as a store of value.

I love my PMs. Money of last resort and in a worldwide game of Monopoly, when the table gets kicked over by the spoilt brat, the winner will have the most gold and silver and can then name the price in any currency it likes. 

[HawkHybrid]

@sixgun

because banks have treated you badly in the

past doesn't make you right. I think you are

wrong to let the past cloud your judgement

of your future. imo you are fighting a losing

battle. everyone has a past. try not to let

yours deal more damage than it needs to.

 

you just can't seem to see that zimbabwe was

forced to use gold when the zimbabwe dollar

collapsed. given the choice, now they have

returned to using currency.

 

HH

[HawkHybrid]

42 minutes ago, Michal said:

Well thanks to other people spreading unimportant facts i got aware of them and got in to PM. To be honest thanks to PM in my possession I sleep better. I have a friend in Greece and do remember when they had riots he said he would give anything to feed his family.

I spoke with guy from Argentina and he said that for 1oz of silver you could feed your family for a week.

And none of them was expecting situation that they get in to. So awareness of those unimportant facts give me at least illusion  that i will have some kind of solution in event of such unbelievable situation. 

 

you are mixing up your facts.

how 'currency' is printed is unimportant.

recognising that currencies only purpose

is to facilitate trade and does not have a

store of value, is important.

the latter fact is what saved people from a

currency collapse.

people saving in gold couldn't care less

how currency is printed. all they needed to

know was that gold allowed their time and

effort to be used at a later date. and that

currency is not suitable for this.

few people know all the ins and outs of

cars and computers, yet they all drive and

get online just fine.

 

you're giving credit to the wrong bit of fact.

 

HH

[Michal]

3 hours ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

you are mixing up your facts.

how 'currency' is printed is unimportant.

recognising that currencies only purpose

is to facilitate trade and does not have a

store of value, is important.

the latter fact is what saved people from a

currency collapse.

people saving in gold couldn't care less

how currency is printed. all they needed to

know was that gold allowed their time and

effort to be used at a later date. and that

currency is not suitable for this.

few people know all the ins and outs of

cars and computers, yet they all drive and

get online just fine.

 

you're giving credit to the wrong bit of fact.

 

HH

Am I ? How should people realize that without understanding creation of currency? How can they know without realizing fact that system is ridged an money doesn't store value? For common person all surrounding environment is saying that there is nothing to worry about, that everything is as it suppose to be.

Take mortgage, put your saving in saving account (if you have any), use credit for your whims.

Whole financial world is doing what it can for people not to save in gold and other store of value.

In present world currency main purpose is to steal from people, "you are giving credit to wrong bit of fact", side purpose as trade facilitation is negligible in those circumstances.   

[HawkHybrid]

1 hour ago, Michal said:

Am I ? How should people realize that without understanding creation of currency? How can they know without realizing fact that system is ridged an money doesn't store value? For common person all surrounding environment is saying that there is nothing to worry about, that everything is as it suppose to be.

Take mortgage, put your saving in saving account (if you have any), use credit for your whims.

Whole financial world is doing what it can for people not to save in gold and other store of value.

In present world currency main purpose is to steal from people, "you are giving credit to wrong bit of fact", side purpose as trade facilitation is negligible in those circumstances.   

 

you don't need to be able to build a computer

in order to use one?

you don't need to know applied mathematics

in order to play football?

 

HH

[Michal]

Can you proper use computer without knowledge how to use operating system/programs ?

You can use it as a lamp or heater, it will be on, but you will not use it as suppose to.

 

Can you play football without knowledge of rules ?

You can kick the ball but will not be football player.

 

Without awareness and knowledge of rules and mechanics you are outperformed and designed to loose in any matter, specially financially. 

[sixgun]

20 hours ago, HawkHybrid said:

how 'currency' is printed is unimportant.

HH

i will take it you mean - how currency is created is unimportant.

i recall one of the variations of the Rothschild Quote : "Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws."

[HawkHybrid]

42 minutes ago, sixgun said:

i will take it you mean - how currency is created is unimportant.

i recall one of the variations of the Rothschild Quote : "Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws."

 

the printing process is unimportant, the result is

what matters.

rothschild was referring to money, not currency.

the tokens are unimportant, it's the control on the

valuable purchasing power that's important.

 

HH

[HawkHybrid]

2 hours ago, Michal said:

Can you proper use computer without knowledge how to use operating system/programs ?

You can use it as a lamp or heater, it will be on, but you will not use it as suppose to.

 

Can you play football without knowledge of rules ?

You can kick the ball but will not be football player.

 

Without awareness and knowledge of rules and mechanics you are outperformed and designed to loose in any matter, specially financially. 

 

hence knowing how to create a football is

unimportant. knowing how to play football

is what is important.

 

knowing how to build a computer is not

important. it's knowing how operate the

software that's important. you do not need

to know the hardware to be able to use the

software. (as intended as a computer and

not any other random variations of the

physical, you don't half beat about the bush

that's nothing to do with the point I'm trying

to make)

 

more to topic, lots of people don't understand

the mechanics of currency creation.

they do know that currency(£) loses it's value

over time due to inflation. they can get help

with investing in an inflation hedge such as

gold. all they need to know is how gold might

be able to help their finances.

 

looking from a different view. let's say mike

maloney(or whoever created the videos)

released the videos for access in 2000.

can mike maloney's video on currency

creation take credit for those who successfully

used gold to hedge against inflation prior to

the year 2000?

(if you didn't need it to be successful then it

can't be that important to you?)

 

HH

[sixgun]

26 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

the printing process is unimportant, the result is what matters.

rothschild was referring to money, not currency.

the tokens are unimportant, it's the control on the valuable purchasing power that's important.

 

HH

Some distinguish between money and currency - putting forward different definitions. You have mentioned differences so in order to understand what it is you are trying to put across will you define what it is you mean by money and currency.