Our Money

[Michal]

If i ever have doubt in PM i watch this video. I know it is a bit old but will never go out of date until we stay in this sick system. 

 

[TheRegalOne]

It's a scary thought that if the dollar ever goes into hyperinflation, everyone else is going down with it! 

[HawkHybrid]

this is like the mike maloney videos.

the video shows a lack of understanding.

it doesn't make the distinction between

currency(an accountancy shuffle to

facilitate trade) and money(containing a

store of value as well as an ability to be

traded).

banks can only create currency. interest

is due on loaned out currency.

 

HH

[Stu]

13 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

this is like the mike maloney videos.

the video shows a lack of understanding.

it doesn't make the distinction between

currency(an accountancy shuffle to

facilitate trade) and money(containing a

store of value as well as an ability to be

traded).

banks can only create currency. interest

is due on loaned out currency.

 

HH

Doesn't make that distinction true, however it was targeting folks who had no knowledge of this fraud in the first place so fair play I would say. 

[HawkHybrid]

30 minutes ago, Stu said:

Doesn't make that distinction true, however it was targeting folks who had no knowledge of this fraud in the first place so fair play I would say. 

 

the distinction means that currency created

by banks have no purchasing power. it's an

iou with no backing. banks do not create

money as claimed by the video. therefore

they are not committing fraud.

the newly created currency requires the

government to give it purchasing power

in order for it to be spent as if it was money.

 

another example would be : the bank gives

you a blank cheque book, based around a

cheque system that they create. it's down

to you to credit the account with the funds

and write the appropriate cheques for your

own needs. the bank has not committed

fraud, despite the fact that cheques written

by you can be used to credit other bank

accounts with currency/money. ie your

written cheques can be accepted as payment,

similar to the equivalence of money.

 

HH

[sixgun]

Currencies have purchasing power b/c people believe they have value and are willing to take the digits and paper in exchange for goods and services. As the video says it is based on 'faith'. It is based on confidence in the currency - unfortunately this confidence is misplaced b/c it is a confidence trick. 

The system is designed to steal all the value from the people. It is a criminal system. There are $trillions of debt - $trillions are owed to the banks, all of which was created out of thin air by the banks and yet we are constantly hearing how rocky the banks are. How can this possibly be? They should be swimming in a sea of currency. Where is all this currency going? There are boom and bust cycles deliberately created to increase the debt and then shrink the 'money' supply so the debt cannot be paid and the banks can move in to steal assets for unpaid 'money' that they never lent in the first place. In the next crisis when all the banks go bust and bail in all the deposits, where is the value they siphoned away, where will it have gone? How could it all have disappeared? The whole thing is a massive fraud. The banks are at the root of the legal system and politics - the legal courts are not about justice - it is about debt - you are charged for 'offences' and the judge is the banker sat on the bench - bankers would sit on a bench. When you think about it with income tax, corporation tax, VAT, NI, duties, council tax, licences, fines, various fees..... virtually all the currency comes back to the government and yet the government always claims it is in debt. And the people always believe it. It is one big scam - virtually everything you are told is a lie.

[Au79]

Hyperinflation is loss of confidence with a incumbent government payment system (currency), low probable generational event.

The existing government currencies will be like living in the world of matrix as our reality.

[Michal]

HawkHybrid, I hope You are just trolling, otherwise Your claims are misleading and simply rapes logic. Please, print some currency (which is called by majority of people MONEY) and go ask council/gov to give it purchasing power, see You in 20 years.

You say that video is useless because it doesn't make distinction between currency and money (which are in public awareness identical) and more than that You are trying to convince us that there is nothing wrong with currency creation by central banks with cooperation of governments. Seriously ? But seriously ??

There is nothing wrong that they are stealing form our purchasing power because it is approved by government?

Oh BTW remind me which government agency is setting up interest rates?

[HawkHybrid]

4 hours ago, Michal said:

HawkHybrid, I hope You are just trolling, otherwise Your claims are misleading and simply rapes logic. Please, print some currency (which is called by majority of people MONEY) and go ask council/gov to give it purchasing power, see You in 20 years.

 

it doesn't work that way.

when governments need currency they ask

banks to provide the service of expanding

the currency available. they then give it

purchasing power by legalising the newly

created currency. banks don't go asking

the government to give their newly created

currency purchasing power.

it down to the government to decide, not

the banks.

 

think of it like a cheque book. it's down to

you to sign the cheque(authorising the

transfer of funds). the bank has no say in

you signing cheques.

 

currency is designed to circulate. they are

'fiat' by design in order to make the system

work more effectively. currency is designed

to not hold it's value. in order to hold it's value

(save) you need to convert currency into

something like gold. currency is not money.

 

a current account has lower than inflation

interest rates. currency left in a current

account will depreciate in time. current

accounts are design for the flow of currency.

if you want to save with the currency you

need to have a savings account. interest

rates on savings accounts are higher and

at least 'try' to keep up with inflation.

 

HH

[HawkHybrid]

10 hours ago, sixgun said:

Currencies have purchasing power b/c people believe they have value and are willing to take the digits and paper in exchange for goods and services. As the video says it is based on 'faith'. It is based on confidence in the currency - unfortunately this confidence is misplaced b/c it is a confidence trick. 

 

currency has purchasing power because

people have faith that it can still be used

as payment for current and future taxes.

the 'faith' part is not so much blind faith

as implied by many conspiracy theorist,

but more of a 'faith' that the law will

continue similar to how it currently is.

it is more a practical way of dealing with

the environment that we live in as opposed

to a confidence trick.

 

HH

[HawkHybrid]

10 hours ago, sixgun said:

virtually all the currency comes back to the government and yet the government always claims it is in debt.

 

the government is in debt because it has

already spent future taxes that have yet

to be collected.

 

HH

[sixgun]

15 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

currency has purchasing power because people have faith that it can still be used as payment for current and future taxes.

the 'faith' part is not so much blind faith as implied by many conspiracy theorist, but more of a 'faith' that the law will continue similar to how it currently is.

it is more a practical way of dealing with the environment that we live in as opposed to a confidence trick.

HH

You are projecting - you are projecting your knowledge onto other people. The vast majority of people are clueless - they are blind. They aren't thinking about stuff. It is blind faith. 

8 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

the government is in debt because it has already spent future taxes that have yet to be collected.

HH

The government is in debt b/c the currency was borrowed into existence. All currency is someone's debt. Why did the government borrow the currency? It is a pure scam. A trick. Yes a confidence trick.

[HawkHybrid]

4 hours ago, Michal said:

There is nothing wrong that they are stealing form our purchasing power because it is approved by government?

 

this is plain untrue. it is not your purchasing

power. read the notes where it says 'I promise

to pay the bearer to the sum of ... pounds'

you are simply the bearer of the currency. you

do not own the currency, you not own it's

purchasing power.

the government make laws to change the

purchasing power distribution of it's currency

to what it sees as being fit. you can think of

it like you are renting the use of the currency's

purchasing power.

this would not be true if it was money. that's

why the distinction between money and

currency is so important here.

 

HH

[Xander]

Everyone spends money they haven't yet earned, that's the reason it eventually goes BOOM! And what do we do? start all over again. It seems we are addicted to the stuff.

[HawkHybrid]

18 minutes ago, sixgun said:

You are projecting - you are projecting your knowledge onto other people. The vast majority of people are clueless - they are blind. They aren't thinking about stuff. It is blind faith. 

 

they all know one important thing.

currency can be 'legally' be used to pay bills

and taxes.

 

the faith part is in the law and not in the

currency itself.

 

eg why do I accept payment in £'s and not

yuan(renminbi)? the faith of ~2 billion people

is still backing the yuan. so has it lost faith?

I don't accept it as payment is because I have

no faith that it'll be accepted as payment of

taxes under uk law. 

 

HH

[sixgun]

24 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

they all know one important thing. currency can be 'legally' be used to pay bills and taxes.

HH

Agreed and the currency will be accepted until it isn't. Only in court has it got to be accepted. We have seen this with some of the crappy legal tender Royal Mint coins which the banks have been instructed not to accept. 

The £5 note has on it the promise to pay the bearer the sum of 5 pounds. The promissory note promises to pay this. What is this sum of 5 pounds and where can i get it paid? You know a promise that is made with no intention of honoring is fraud. Could it be all the currency is a fraud?

You still didn't address my question

32 minutes ago, sixgun said:

All currency is someone's debt. Why did the government borrow the currency?

i asked my MP a few years ago about this - she said she has written the foreword to a book about money and she knew about the subject. i am still waiting for her answer. i am very naughty i ask these questions knowing they won't be answered.

[Au79]

History repeats because of each generational’s ignorance. Many are in the dark, with noises everywhere, those who seen the light may live in half truth, those who knows the light understand it is better to hide in the shadows from those in the dark.

[HawkHybrid]

37 minutes ago, sixgun said:

The government is in debt b/c the currency was borrowed into existence. All currency is someone's debt. Why did the government borrow the currency?

 

the governments choice to borrow to spend

what it has yet to receive in taxes is all

political. (that's mostly the reason why you

are not getting a straight answer from the

politicians). in the current political environment,

borrowing to spend wins votes.

this has very little to do with the currency

arguments. ie governments will borrow to

spend regardless of the mechanics available

to them.(if that is their intention)

 

HH

[sixgun]

3 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

the governments choice to borrow to spend what you have yet to receive in taxes is all political. (that's mostly the reason why you are not getting a straight answer from the

politicians). in the current political environment, borrowing to spend win votes.

this has very little to do with the currency arguments. ie governments will borrow to spend regardless of the mechanics available to them.

 

HH

The question is why does the government borrow the currency? - not what do they do with this currency when they have it. 
Why does a government BORROW the currency? 
Does a government have to BORROW the currency? Are there alternatives to borrowing it?

[HawkHybrid]

23 minutes ago, sixgun said:

The question is why does the government borrow the currency? - not what do they do with this currency when they have it. 
Why does a government BORROW the currency? 
Does a government have to BORROW the currency? Are there alternatives to borrowing it?

 

they have to borrow the currency because the

currency represents the purchasing power of

the ability of taxes to pay.

they must borrow the currency because they

have not yet received those taxes.

they must borrow if they want to spend what

they have yet to receive.

alternatively they could borrow from foreign

lenders, but they must borrow(ie pay interest).

 

the only way to avoid borrowing is to only spend

up to what you receive in current taxes. this is

why I say it's a political choice and little to do

with the mechanics of currency. in order to spend

future income now, you must borrow. there is no

two ways about it.

 

HH

[sixgun]

1 hour ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

they have to borrow the currency because the currency represents the purchasing power of the ability of taxes to pay.

they must borrow the currency because they have not yet received those taxes.

they must borrow if they want to spend what they have yet to receive.

alternatively they could borrow from foreign lenders, but they must borrow(ie pay interest).

the only way to avoid borrowing is to only spend up to what you receive in current taxes. this is why I say it's a political choice and little to do with the mechanics of currency. in order to spend future income now, you must borrow. there is no two ways about it.

HH

You are an intelligent person so why are you thinking inside the Matrix?

Let's look at this objectively - the often used example is the US government and the Federal Reserve. The US government 'borrows' the currency from the Federal Reserve Bank.
Where does the Fed get this currency from? - Out of thin air. It is just brought into existence by pushing keys on a computer. 

The government put the people into debt. Why?

Why doesn't the government create the currency without the Federal Reserve? They did this before the Federal Reserve. There were no income taxes in America until the year the Federal Reserve came into existence. Why doesn't the nation create its own currency at no interest. 

There is no need for the bank - the bank creates the currency out of thin air and charges interest on that. Allowing the bank to create currency out of thin air and then paying the bank interest on this is simply a way to take value from the people and pay it to the banks. It is a conspiracy between the government and the bank to steal from the people.

[Au79]

Each modern nation competes against the rest of the nations through its currencies in exchange for natural resources, asset and capital resources, human resources and technological resources. With good governance, government spending is to lubricate the economy, creating jobs, creating the wealth effect for spending on products and services. Each transaction points allows the government to exercise the opportunity to collect tax revenues according to their policies. A healthy economic environment should yield a sustaining positive cycle effect. However, reality is that politics is a disruptor to the build up of good governance. And through the elimination by choice from the good to the bad of governance, the effects follows thereafter. The ancient nations are similar but have different priorities due to the environments of their times.

[HawkHybrid]

8 hours ago, sixgun said:

You are an intelligent person so why are you thinking inside the Matrix?

Let's look at this objectively - the often used example is the US government and the Federal Reserve. The US government 'borrows' the currency from the Federal Reserve Bank.
Where does the Fed get this currency from? - Out of thin air. It is just brought into existence by pushing keys on a computer. 

The government put the people into debt. Why?

Why doesn't the government create the currency without the Federal Reserve? They did this before the Federal Reserve. There were no income taxes in America until the year the Federal Reserve came into existence. Why doesn't the nation create its own currency at no interest. 

There is no need for the bank - the bank creates the currency out of thin air and charges interest on that. Allowing the bank to create currency out of thin air and then paying the bank interest on this is simply a way to take value from the people and pay it to the banks. It is a conspiracy between the government and the bank to steal from the people.

 

so far everything can be explained with the

use of rational decisions within politics.

 

on the flip side, creators of videos of this type

of content have much to gain by giving half

the story. it is good versus evil, you must

stand with us and be on the side of good?

 

you are not accepting currency for what it is:

a means with which to trade.

I have tried giving examples of how expanding

the currency works.

if you are still unable to make the distinction

between currency and money then it is you that

will suffer. the whole world is not going to go

backwards because you can't make the step to

move forwards.

the people enslave themselves with their idea

of 'something for nothing'.

honesty have to come from the people.

 

HH

[Martlet]

There is a lot of focus on purchasing power of our money, which seems to overlook this applies to government and businesses too: they must pay more nominally for labour and services as the purchasing power is reduced.  As long as people can approximately keep pace with inflation its not so important any more.  The problem of lost purchasing power is outweighed by the potential for economic growth, now bound by monetary policy.  Anyone saying they are poorer today than 30, 50, 100 years ago should try living as then and soon realise its not all just about nominal wealth. Trivially priced light, heating, modern appliances, advancement in technology for labour saving devices and leisure are overlooked.  What was once a luxury is everyday, what was once unimaginable is common place. 

[KDave]

There is a trick - people are trained to think of currency as money through their daily experiences with it. The familiarity and repeated use weaves an illusion of consistency, it allows the development of an ignorance of the difference between tangible value and the means of exchange, people who know no better do confuse the measuring stick (currency) with value (actual goods, services) and then attempt to save and measure wealth in the measuring stick. People get a 'pay rise' and are worse off, being paid less for the same value of work but are receiving more currency. And are happy about it. These are the tricks. It is dishonest because not everyone is in on the game and those that are exploit the situation/people.