Jump to content
  • The above Banner is a Sponsored Banner.

    Upgrade to Premium Membership to remove this Banner & All Google Ads. For full list of Premium Member benefits Click HERE.

  • Join The Silver Forum

    The Silver Forum is one of the largest and best loved silver and gold precious metals forums in the world, established since 2014. Join today for FREE! Browse the sponsor's topics (hidden to guests) for special deals and offers, check out the bargains in the members trade section and join in with our community reacting and commenting on topic posts. If you have any questions whatsoever about precious metals collecting and investing please join and start a topic and we will be here to help with our knowledge :) happy stacking/collecting. 21,000+ forum members and 1 million+ forum posts. For the latest up to date stats please see the stats in the right sidebar when browsing from desktop. Sign up for FREE to view the forum with reduced ads. 

Auctions are insane


Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, ilovesilverireallydo said:

Maybe tag the person you are referring to? Otherwise looks like you are talking to me lol. I have never owned a gothic crown 👑 

And put a link to the video, so we know what you are talking about as well. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 53
  • Created
  • Last Reply
15 minutes ago, ilovesilverireallydo said:

Maybe tag the person you are referring to? Otherwise looks like you are talking to me lol. I have never owned a gothic crown 👑 

 #scottishstackerdave on you tube

12 minutes ago, HighlandTiger said:

And put a link to the video, so we know what you are talking about as well. ;)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 19/06/2019 at 13:33, universalcurrency said:

It used to be just buyers premium, since the more established auction houses started taking it on both ends they all followed suite! Lose if you buy & lose if you sell.  Whats more annoying is the lack of margin vat registered auctioneers, so you end up paying tax on the entire value not the hammer.

Really?  I haven't had to pay VAT on the whole cost once that I can recall.

I've only been charged VAT on the fees so if the fee is 20% you pay VAT on that giving 24% over all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, HighlandTiger said:

I was chatting to a small coin dealer and one of his regular sovereign buying customers, at a tiny antiques fair at the weekend. The dealer was moaning that he was struggling to find replacement stock of sovereigns as he was selling out too quickly at £320+. Neither he, nor his regular customer had heard of Hatton Garden Metals, or Atkinsons. They know now 

So you are right, there are a vast number of buyers out there who don't buy via the internet.  

Instead of telling them of their existence, some people might have offered to supply them at a profit😉

Profile picture with thanks to Carl Vernon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

Instead of telling them of their existence, some people might have offered to supply them at a profit😉

My local shop is a glut of gold, even has a 10 oz lady fortuna in there, he is struggling to hold onto silver, people are converting..I'm tempted to myself but as both are rising it seems a waste

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, sovereignsteve said:

Instead of telling them of their existence, some people might have offered to supply them at a profit😉

They were two elderly chaps, I didn't have heart to rip them off. I'm a soft touch at times, :)  

56 minutes ago, DarkChameleon said:

My local shop is a glut of gold, even has a 10 oz lady fortuna in there, he is struggling to hold onto silver, people are converting..I'm tempted to myself but as both are rising it seems a waste

Sadly that is an American thing, we don't have those sort of shops this side of the pond, :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, HighlandTiger said:

They were two elderly chaps, I didn't have heart to rip them off. I'm a soft touch at times, :)  

Sadly that is an American thing, we don't have those sort of shops this side of the pond, :(

If you have $15000 burning a hole in your pocket I could ask him to send it to you...lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, DarkChameleon said:

My local shop is a glut of gold, even has a 10 oz lady fortuna in there, he is struggling to hold onto silver, people are converting..I'm tempted to myself but as both are rising it seems a waste

I sure envy americans, having few lcs in almos each town

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, gustavus said:

I sure envy americans, having few lcs in almos each town

Like a lot of companies over here though, they flood the market then so many go belly up and you then have to go to more built up areas to find lcs and not pawn shops or jewelers,I'm in a popular gulf shore city so more to choose from,if I was inlandthere might be a bit more trouble finding coin shops.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even in decent sized cities in Scotland there aren't any coin shops.  In fact I'm not even sure if there are still any in the capital, Edinburgh although I think Hiram Brown may have had a son who is a took over his shop when he died fairly recently. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 17/07/2019 at 17:31, Pipers said:

 #scottishstackerdave on you tube

 

I find it telling that the two forum members mentioned in the video haven't come on here to defend themselves.

If someone had said something untrue about me, I'd be on here straight away defending myself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing is, ebay shilling is common practice, especially by "dealers".

Some people just use it as insurance against a bad auction but some definitely have it down to a fine art and consistently achieve higher prices that the norm. Sometimes to such an extent that their selling prices have other dealers scratching their heads in disbelief.

I know ebay has the facility to set a reserve price, but it is well known that having one does discourage bidders and badly affects selling prices.

Profile picture with thanks to Carl Vernon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

The thing is, ebay shilling is common practice, especially by "dealers".

Then perhaps there should be a name and shame thread, so people know which "dealers" to avoid on eBay if they don't wish to be ripped off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is fundamentally a dishonest practice common or not. If dealers are using underhand tactics to push prices up then what else are they up to, how about selling fakes?

The nature of this market requires a high level of trust, lose trust and watch the avenues of sale close for everybody.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, KDave said:

It is fundamentally a dishonest practice common or not. If dealers are using underhand tactics to push prices up then what else are they up to, how about selling fakes?

The nature of this market requires a high level of trust, lose trust and watch the avenues of sale close for everybody.

As the video talks about shill bidding occuring on auctions of slabbed coins, then who is to know if the coins are genuine or not. Them Chinese are getting good at copying plastic slabs and printed labels, which can easily cover up any fake coin. 

It's one of the main reasons I'll never buy a slabbed coin from anyone. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, HighlandTiger said:

I find it telling that the two forum members mentioned in the video haven't come on here to defend themselves.

If someone had said something untrue about me, I'd be on here straight away defending myself.

Agreed.

Technically, alcohol is a solution..

'It [socialism] poses a growing threat, however unintentional, to the freedom of this country, for there is no freedom where the State totally controls the economy. Personal freedom and economic freedom are indivisible. You can’t have one without the other. You can’t lose one without losing the other.'

"There is no such thing as public money, there is only taxpayers' money"

Let not England forget her precedence of teaching nations how to live.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

The thing is, ebay shilling is common practice, especially by "dealers".

Some people just use it as insurance against a bad auction but some definitely have it down to a fine art and consistently achieve higher prices that the norm. Sometimes to such an extent that their selling prices have other dealers scratching their heads in disbelief.

I know ebay has the facility to set a reserve price, but it is well known that having one does discourage bidders and badly affects selling prices.

I never bid on private ebay bids, that is almost a stamp of shilling...and the zero feedback bidders are something that makes me stop bidding, either they are these scams or they are fake bids..but they used to shilling  the auction houses taking bids at the back of the room that didn't exist to bring the price up, saying it was a preexisting bid that they were taking that had been made earlier to promise to buy up to a certain price...all BS but that was their excuse when caught.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, HighlandTiger said:

Then perhaps there should be a name and shame thread, so people know which "dealers" to avoid on eBay if they don't wish to be ripped off.

That ebay removed the ability to see exactly who was bidding for an item has made it easier to shill bid.  I don't think ebay really give much of a damn about shill bidding or selling fakes as long as they get their cut.

I'm sure they could quite easily prove shill bidding when it has been reported but they don't seem to bother or take much action.  They could easily see who is bidding, how often they bid on certain sellers items, how often they actually win and pay and the ip of the bidder and seller.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, HighlandTiger said:

 

If someone had said something untrue about me, I'd be on here straight away defending myself.

Problem is, when one admits it, its hard to defend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing is its illegal and you will get a very big fine.  I have to also say its stealing money!  An auction is a free market where bidders come together until the highest bidder prevails. 

Think of it a different way,  you are watching youtube videos and reading forum posts from various forums about coins.  Over a few months you decide you like a certain type of coins (doesn't matter what)  lets say British modern, you have an interest in them and you have gained knowledge because of all the videos you have watched and all the forum threads you have read.  Plus you want to join in the hobby everyone seems to be having a great time!  So on to buying, over the months the youtube videos mention ebay and because the better coins are found on ebay and so are the bargains, or  thats what you have been told ,  you decide thats  where you can find the coins.   What you have not realised is you have been nudged hook line and sinker into buying more than likely the wrong coin from the wrong place.  You find the coin that the nice men on youtube have been recommending for months it must be a good coin for my collection you tell your self, you put a bid on then start bidding. The nice men on youtube have told you what price the coin can achieve and you want to buy a coin in a slab just to make sure you do not get ripped off.  You secure the coin at the top end of the price range but thats ok you have a quality coin,  right? 

Well no just take a moment and think what has happened to you.  would you of bought that coin if the nice man on youtube did not say how good it was?  How do you know how much the coin is worth and could you of got a better example cheaper or for the same money from elsewhere?   We all can get taken along with the crowd, just remember there are sharks waiting to take advantage there are many types.   

 I have been a gold buyer for may many years (stacker)  just buy gold or as close to spot, if you are in the UK buy Gold sovereigns, Britannias, Krugerrands.   

silver Britannias, maybe eagles maples if you can get them cheap, plus flat ware, hollowware at spot never above spot. 

Selling is as important as buying.     

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think a good policy when buying coins on Ebay auction or at auction houses is do thorough research and decide the maximum price that you are willing to pay - and stick to it. 

This reduces the risk of getting ripped off with Shilling, although if shilling is going on there is still a chance that you could pay more than you would have done with " fair" bidding.

I have seen so many buyers get carried away in auctions, then regretted it afterwards !

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Pipers said:

The thing is its illegal and you will get a very big fine.  I have to also say its stealing money!  An auction is a free market where bidders come together until the highest bidder prevails. 

Think of it a different way,  you are watching youtube videos and reading forum posts from various forums about coins.  Over a few months you decide you like a certain type of coins (doesn't matter what)  lets say British modern, you have an interest in them and you have gained knowledge because of all the videos you have watched and all the forum threads you have read.  Plus you want to join in the hobby everyone seems to be having a great time!  So on to buying, over the months the youtube videos mention ebay and because the better coins are found on ebay and so are the bargains, or  thats what you have been told ,  you decide thats  where you can find the coins.   What you have not realised is you have been nudged hook line and sinker into buying more than likely the wrong coin from the wrong place.  You find the coin that the nice men on youtube have been recommending for months it must be a good coin for my collection you tell your self, you put a bid on then start bidding. The nice men on youtube have told you what price the coin can achieve and you want to buy a coin in a slab just to make sure you do not get ripped off.  You secure the coin at the top end of the price range but thats ok you have a quality coin,  right? 

Well no just take a moment and think what has happened to you.  would you of bought that coin if the nice man on youtube did not say how good it was?  How do you know how much the coin is worth and could you of got a better example cheaper or for the same money from elsewhere?   We all can get taken along with the crowd, just remember there are sharks waiting to take advantage there are many types.   

 I have been a gold buyer for may many years (stacker)  just buy gold or as close to spot, if you are in the UK buy Gold sovereigns, Britannias, Krugerrands.   

silver Britannias, maybe eagles maples if you can get them cheap, plus flat ware, hollowware at spot never above spot. 

Selling is as important as buying.     

It's probably you I'm bidding against.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

part of my business is buying stock from auction houses and re-selling

I deal with dozens of auctions both live and online 

rather than name and shame those that shill

I will list below the honest ones that don't...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Cookies & terms of service

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. By continuing to use this site you consent to the use of cookies and to our Privacy Policy & Terms of Use