Panda Vs Kangaroos/Nuggets ?

[Toshunya86]

Hi everyone ; 

This summer I am going to purchase about 6 to 8 1oz gold coins; the fruit of several years of savings . While common sense would recommend buying the cheapest bullion possible ( in parallel to that I have a little LMU 20fr collection starting ); I feel better collecting cheap stuff just for the fun of it 

I could obviously buy Krugerrands or Maple Leafs but for the same range of price you can get Kangaroos various years. I m ok to pay a slight premium but I am wondering if the Kangaroos are better than the Chinese Panda.

Here is what I think :

Panda started in 1983 and Kangaroo in 1986. 

Panda has only twice the same design (2001 and 2002) which makes 35 coins in total .

Kangaroo has the nuggets for the first 3 years but I count them as different coins even if the first two are the same  ; which makes 33 coins in total 

Pandas have much higher premium in general but seem to keep them.over time. Kangaroos are still cheap even the first few models.

Pandas look nicer to me strictly esthetically  but the Perth Mint has a great reputation for quality . It is also said that Pandas are easy to fake ; and the switch to 30g lately is a bit of a challenge when calculating premium without calculators .

My choice then goes for the nugget/Kangaroo . A bit cheaper and looks like a safer bet .

My questions are 

1) do you agree with kangaroos a better close to spot investment than panda ?

2) does it make any sense to get all years in case of reselling in a couple of years ?

3) for this who have experience ; am I mistaken to put feelings and should rather go for any cheap recognized bullion rather than taking one collection and get all years little by little ( over 10 years for example ) ?

I know these are subjective things but as it will define my strategy over long term but I am a sentimental and have only one life so i would love to hear  your educated opinions .

Thanks 

[CadmiumGreen]

Personally started with a foundation of 1 oz gold Krugerrands...and a couple Maples. Wouldn’t have considered Kangaroos...don’t really like the design and  the Krugerrand is truly recognized worldwide. For Pandas I like the fractionals, not the full one ouncers, even though there is good variability in mintages which could see increased premiums over the years. Would also probably be hard pressed to sell a full date run of 1 oz Pandas or Kangaroos for that being concerned...but then again I am fully stuck with the Rwandan Gold Lunar Series...so what do I know!😂

Should have went with the Queen’s Beasts 1 oz Gold Series instead...but can never go wrong with Gold Sovs!

[fehk2001]

11 minutes ago, CadmiumGreen said:

Personally started with a foundation of 1 oz gold Krugerrands...and a couple Maples. Wouldn’t have considered Kangaroos...don’t really like the design and  the Krugerrand is truly recognized worldwide. For Pandas I like the fractionals, not the full one ouncers, even though there is good variability in mintages which could see increased premiums over the years. Would also probably be hard pressed to sell a full date run of 1 oz Pandas or Kangaroos for that being concerned...but then again I am fully stuck with the Rwandan Gold Lunar Series...so what do I know!😂

Should have went with the Queen’s Beasts 1 oz Gold Series instead...but can never go wrong with Gold Sovs!

good reply, I give u two likes . but I am trying to add on is, depends on his age and where he is as well, he is not from uk so trade sovereign maybe a bit hard 

e.g easier to buy and sell American coins if u are in America 

[CadmiumGreen]

6 minutes ago, fehk2001 said:

good reply, I give u two likes . but I am trying to add on is, depends on his age and where he is as well, he is not from uk so trade sovereign maybe a bit hard 

e.g easier to buy and sell American coins if u are in America 

Ah, c’mon...am I the only one in the US that loves Sovs?!? 😆...but to be transparent, @fehk2001 is correct to take into account what you can easily sell from where you are located...rule number two to stacking/collecting. Rule number one stack/collect what you like!

[fehk2001]

1 minute ago, CadmiumGreen said:

Ah, c’mon...am I the only one in the US that loves Sovs?!? 😆...but to be transparent, @fehk2001 is correct to take into account what you can easily sell from where you are located...rule number two to stacking/collecting. Rule number one stack/collect what you like!

rules number one is how much you can afford 🤣

[CadmiumGreen]

3 minutes ago, fehk2001 said:

rules number one is how much you can afford 🤣

That’s what two careers are for!😁

[fehk2001]

1 minute ago, CadmiumGreen said:

That’s what two careers are for!

it is like drugs...… it is addictive 😎 that doesn't help

[CadmiumGreen]

So true! But the good thing is that this is a preservation of wealth...better than spending your hard earned money on other stuff which won’t maintain at least some semblance of intrinsic value.

[Toshunya86]

I am from France even though I'm working in Europe outside the EU which makes it extremely complicated for customs & buys online. I don't know one shop in all Europe who doesn't sell Kangaroos I would have believed this is a very recognized coin . I do not understand what is the point of having various Krugerrand years if they look the same ? ( @CadmiumGreen)

[CadmiumGreen]

1 minute ago, Toshunya86 said:

I am from France. I don't know one shop in all Europe who doesn't sell Kangaroos I would have believed this is a very recognized coin . I do not understand what is the point of having various Krugerrand years if they look the same ? ( @CadmiumGreen)

Krugerrands aren’t necessarily about date runs and variability in designs (other than the 2017 anniversary year). As an aside, some of the older Rands are good additions to a collection as well, but then you are getting into numismatics. I view Krugerrands as a good base stack of gold...I think they are kind of interesting, in their own right. Understandable, that they don’t have any variability in design from year to year, but it is a statement of legacy as to the privatization of gold ownership. 

Kangaroos are recognizable, I am by no means contesting that...if able to pick up variety of Kangaroos at close to spot with variations of designs that you enjoy, then Kangaroos it is!

 

[silenceissilver]

2 hours ago, Toshunya86 said:

Hi everyone ; 

This summer I am going to purchase about 6 to 8 1oz gold coins; the fruit of several years of savings . While common sense would recommend buying the cheapest bullion possible ( in parallel to that I have a little LMU 20fr collection starting ); I feel better collecting cheap stuff just for the fun of it 

I could obviously buy Krugerrands or Maple Leafs but for the same range of price you can get Kangaroos various years. I m ok to pay a slight premium but I am wondering if the Kangaroos are better than the Chinese Panda.

Here is what I think :

Panda started in 1983 and Kangaroo in 1986. 

Panda has only twice the same design (2001 and 2002) which makes 35 coins in total .

Kangaroo has the nuggets for the first 3 years but I count them as different coins even if the first two are the same  ; which makes 33 coins in total 

Pandas have much higher premium in general but seem to keep them.over time. Kangaroos are still cheap even the first few models.

Pandas look nicer to me strictly esthetically  but the Perth Mint has a great reputation for quality . It is also said that Pandas are easy to fake ; and the switch to 30g lately is a bit of a challenge when calculating premium without calculators .

My choice then goes for the nugget/Kangaroo . A bit cheaper and looks like a safer bet .

My questions are 

1) do you agree with kangaroos a better close to spot investment than panda ?

2) does it make any sense to get all years in case of reselling in a couple of years ?

3) for this who have experience ; am I mistaken to put feelings and should rather go for any cheap recognized bullion rather than taking one collection and get all years little by little ( over 10 years for example ) ?

I know these are subjective things but as it will define my strategy over long term but I am a sentimental and have only one life so i would love to hear  your educated opinions .

Thanks 

I'm really focusing on Sovereigns but I bought a few one ouncers as well, the Britannia, the Philharmonic, the Krugerrand, the 40 years Maple, the American Egale and the Kangaroo, all but the Philharmonic and the Krugerrand from this year. The Kangaroo is the most beautiful of all of them on both the obverse and reverse.

 

I would never buy a Panda for a few reasons but mostly they will not be important for others. Firstly, I like to be able to read what's on a coin. As long as it's written in the Latin alphabet at least you can easily look it up. Secondly, the switch to 30 grams is a no no. And thirdly, I just don't want to support the Chinese government and this has one reason - their social credit system where millions are not allowed to use trains or aero plans any more, partly for misbehaviour - ranging from crossing the street at red lights to actual crimes but also for criticising the government. I'm really allergic to this kind of attitude and although the Western governments do their best to keep up with China, this system is really further reaching than anything else in the world.

In terms of sell-ability, I don' have never sold any gold but I think selling Kangaroos at any quantity is not an issue regardless of how many you have of what years. But I think that's true for all of the above coins including the Panda.

[Toshunya86]

I have decided to get all kangaroos from 1990. I will skip the "nuggets" from 1986 to 1989 . They are ugly and are the only ones with a significantly high premium.

It makes 30 coins to collect. I give myself a minimum of 5 years and a maximum of 10 years to get them all. 

Coupled with the 46 x 20 francs , it makes 76 coins to collect .

At the end of which , I will sell everything to buy something without a mortgage.

 

[silenceissilver]

6 hours ago, Toshunya86 said:

I have decided to get all kangaroos from 1990. I will skip the "nuggets" from 1986 to 1989 . They are ugly and are the only ones with a significantly high premium.

It makes 30 coins to collect. I give myself a minimum of 5 years and a maximum of 10 years to get them all. 

Coupled with the 46 x 20 francs , it makes 76 coins to collect .

At the end of which , I will sell everything to buy something without a mortgage.

 

Sounds like a plan. Personally I mix in Crypto currencies as well but it should be much less than gold. But if you want to be on the safe side, stay away from them.

Here you can see the difference between the coins I have mentioned above. Sadly all but the Kangaroo look Silver-ish on the photos. In reality all shine but the Kangaroo shines the most.

 

[Toshunya86]

I do not believe in crypto for many reasons. It will not end well. 

[silenceissilver]

1 hour ago, Toshunya86 said:

I do not believe in crypto for many reasons. It will not end well. 

You should not put more money into cryptos than you are ready to lose as they can go to zero. Thus if you are not ready to lose anything, you shouldn't invest in them, I agree with that. It's basically gambling.

[Toshunya86]

I am not ready because not only I dont believe in it , but more importantly , while trying to get interested , I do not understand the technical mechanism behind it.

[Frenchie]

On 28/05/2019 at 15:15, Toshunya86 said:

I have decided to get all kangaroos from 1990

The gold Kangaroos are a beautiful serie. They are liquid and well recognized. However, I don't see them  with any potential appreciation. I prefer to bet on limited series such as Queen's beast at bullion  price...Look at the first three coins in the serie. I made good money flipping some and then reinvest in the next ones at bullion price. So my average buying spot price is incredibly lower, and well below the actual gold spot price

The only Kangaroo I have flipped is the 2014  25 Y anniversary but with a really pale profit (5%) compared to the first Queen's beast 1oz 

I have also bet on the Somalia Leopard 2018 (got two at 1185€, so a low risk), and the last remaining coins sell now between 1600/1800€

[Toshunya86]

Thank you @Frenchie .

You might be right , I will sporadically invest in some new obscure series from time to time if i can afford it , but the choice of bullion "close-to-spot" will be Kangaroo. I see more little potential in speculation for old semi-numismatic coins