Newbie question (Proof)

[Toshunya86]

A few newbie questions here. Bear in mind English is not my native language so it might create some silly misunderstandings in my french brain eroded by abusive baguette eating.

1 ) What is the interest of having proof coins  , and how does it work ?

This is what I understand : there are two versions of the same coin . Let's take an example. A Krugerrand silver coin.  There is a normal version and a proof version

The Proof one will have limited mintage and is sold in a booklet and a nice box , making the coin feel special. The normal one will be just sold in a normal capsule or protection.

2a ) What is the interest to get the proof one for modern ounces ? I bet the proof coins are mainly for collectors and not for investors but I don't see the point. You pay for a higher premium , but what is the goal intended ? The certification PROOF means that the coin is real and not counterfeit ?

2b) same question for old coins (for instance 20 francs napoleon etc) , do they have proof coins ?

3) Are these proof coins sold by the mint directly ? Does the mint decide which coins re proof or not ? It makes no sense to me as they will sell same coins with the same quality...
  I see on various ads or videos people claiming to have proof coins . It often has the NPC or PCGS sign on the slab. How does it concretely work ? You have a normal coin , in good quality , send it to these institutes at your own cost, they check the coins and then decide to make it proof put it in a slab and send it back to you so the value of your coin is artificially pumped up by the slab which guarantees authenticity ?

4) is BU and proof the same term ? 

 

I'd be very grateful if you could answer those in a simple manner. 

 

[silenceissilver]

Proof coins means they have a polished finish. They are therefore more reflective. They do not necessarily come in boxes, at least on the second hand market. For example I have bought proof coins in capsules. I'm not a big fan of proof coins though and I would certainly not buy them as a newbie to gold and silver. As a matter of fact I only bought them because my local dealer only had proof versions of the coins I wanted to buy and they were not that much more expensive so I bought them. Nothing wrong with buying one occassionally but they are certainly not my focus.

[HawkHybrid]

a proof coin is minted differently to a bullion coin.

the extra care taken during the process produces

a better coin.

proof coins are not cherry picked normal bullion

coins, they are special coins of higher quality that

sometimes happen to share the same design as

a normal bullion coin.

there's a small niche market for collectors who

value proof coins.

think of it like jeans versus cotton trousers. each

are made for different markets.

 

HH

[sovereignsteve]

Proof coins were traditionally used as that; to prove that the design and standard of a coin could be satisfactorily produced prior to production. They were also used to check the dies and special care was taken during the process to produce the best quality coins that could be achieved for archiving and also "showing off" to superiors in the mint, privy council and possibly the monarch.
Later they were produced to be given to dignatories on special occasions such as coronations and then produced for collectors.

Proofs are often, but not always, made from highly polished blanks and dies so as to impart a mirror like finish to the field. The detail on the die was and is often sandblasted to create a matt, frosted effect on the coin.

Dies for proof coins are produced with more detail and sharper featured than those used for ordinary currency coins.

These days, proof coins are produced for the collector market.

[Fathallazf]

Here is an example to see the difference between proof and bullion. (Taken from Numistacker youtube video).

Left - proof 

Right - Bullion 

 

 

[Toshunya86]

Thank you all.  I think I understand now. I will stay away from those for the time being. 

[Murph]

Some normal not proof coins can have a frosted finish like the left coin in the above picture so don't take that as evidence of a proof version.

Also older proof coins often didn't have the frosted finish and it can be hard to tell if the coin is a proof version unless you are experienced.

 

As for 20 francs I don't think I have seen proofs but there are patterns listed.

For an old matt proof coin example 

https://thelondoncoincompany.com/1902-Edward-VII-Coronation-Florin-Silver-Matt-Proof-Coin-PCGS-PR62

 

Sometimes new coins are only issued in a proof version and the uncirculated normal version is different so if you really like the design you have to buy the proof.  Some of the britannias are like this iirc.

[Toshunya86]

Thank you , it's definitely a specialist thing and not my thing. I am ok with a circulated coin which is in decent state for the time being. thanks for your valuable input

[motorbikez]

Proof coins generally have specially prepared blanks, sometimes highly polished sometimes not. Proof coins are also struck a minimum of twice (sometimes 3 times) in specially prepared dies & handled carefully.

Bullion coins are just struck once at high speed & in general get no special handling, although some mints bullion coins are better than others.

[ilovesilverireallydo]

 

[RoughDog]

IMHO, Proof coins are essentially collector coins.  They are NOT based solely on the precious metal content although they do have that to fall back on. 

They are based on that ever changing mysterious unknown entity called desirability.  If you want to resell them that means other peoples desirability and not your own.  It generally means that if people tell you it looks great you tends to feel good and when people tells you it looks bad or you wasted your money you tend to feel like cr&p.

You better make sure they don't get scratched, dented, touched, breathed on, develop jizz spots 🤣, get a case of the copper red eye (copper red spots that only exists on copper that comes in contact with gold, the copper they use for computer heatsinks never gets the copper red eye).

 

[CarlosSilver]

On 28/04/2019 at 12:46, Toshunya86 said:

A few newbie questions here. Bear in mind English is not my native language so it might create some silly misunderstandings in my french brain eroded by abusive baguette eating.

 

That is the best opening line to a first post on this forum.

Welcome

[Murph]

On 29/04/2019 at 09:31, RoughDog said:

 

You better make sure they don't get scratched, dented, touched, breathed on, develop jizz spots 🤣, get a case of the copper red eye (copper red spots that only exists on copper that comes in contact with gold, the copper they use for computer heatsinks never gets the copper red eye).

 

 

I think you mean red spots on gold and not on copper where it probably wouldn’t be noticed.

I don’t think the red spots on gold have anything todo with the gold coming into contact with copper either.  Well not after the coin/bar has left the mint anyway.

[Frenchie]

On 28/04/2019 at 13:46, Toshunya86 said:

A few newbie questions here. Bear in mind English is not my native language so it might create some silly misunderstandings in my french brain eroded by abusive baguette eating.

Bonjour @Toshunya86, un petit clin d’œil et bienvenu sur  le forum 

"86" Vous êtes originaire de la Vienne ? 

Au plaisir d'échanger

[Toshunya86]

Answered in Private message;)

[RoughDog]

On 10/05/2019 at 20:28, Murph said:

 

I think you mean red spots on gold and not on copper where it probably wouldn’t be noticed.

I don’t think the red spots on gold have anything todo with the gold coming into contact with copper either.  Well not after the coin/bar has left the mint anyway.

The red in question is a different colour to copper.

It was trying to be sarcastic.  Gold doesn't tarnish or change colour as far as I am aware.  I never seen gold jewelry, gold plating or any gold change colour or develop red spots.  I have two gold Britannia's 1/10 ounce coins, (supposed to be 999.9 / 1000  gold ) purchased directly from royal mint and both have developed red spots.