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nummum

Where should I start?

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Hi everyone,

I am new to this and still need to do a ton of research before I start to invest in gold coins.

For now, it would help me a lot if some of you could point me in the right direction.

I'd like to invest £3000/£4000 or so on gold or silver coins. I've been told that I should invest in both silver and gold, but I have also been told that silver is better for investment purposes. What do you guys think? 

Should I buy gold sovereigns? if so, should I buy new or old sovereigns? 

And is there a book or guide you would recommend so that I can learn faster? Youtube videos and online articles help but that's simply not enough.

Thanks in advance.

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It depends on a range of issues, here are a few things to consider: 

1. Storage - silver quickly adds up on storage and takes up a lot of space if you keep buying. If you are storing at home, safes will quickly overflow. 

2. Exit strategy - how are you planning on exit? If you have to sell at a hats drop, then on silver you may take a hit. I always advice starters to buy close to spot whether its gold or silver. silver is harder to get close to spot, unless its junk silver (circulation coins such as British pre 47 coins with silver content from 92.5% to 50% silver in them)

3. Again, when starting out, if you are in it just for the "store of wealth" argument of PMs then buy the lowest value bullion which can be sold quickly and stored easily - in which case gold sovereigns, cheapest at spot are a good option. 

4. Understand your reason to buy PMs - as a store of wealth / savings, then low premium, safe buys. If "investment" then [premium coins which have potential to increase in value over time. (general precious metals arent really "investments" - they yield no returns. Usually best to see them as an inflation hedge. 

5. Understand the prices and buy / sell speeds of various coin types - Britannia will always sell well  - if priced reasonably in the UK for example if silver, and sovereigns will do the same for gold in the UK. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, nummum said:

I'd like to invest £3000/£4000 or so on gold or silver coins. I've been told that I should invest in both silver and gold, but I have also been told that silver is better for investment purposes. What do you guys think?

If I was starting out I know exactly what I would do with 3 to 4k to invest in PMs.

Buy 3x 2019 United Kingdom Gold New Uncirculated Sovereign for £229 each free delivery (buy 1 first take delivery see how it feels buy the other two later).

https://harringtonandbyrne.co.uk/2019-united-kingdom-gold-uncirculated-sovereign-3212.html

(PS. Opt out of all marketing communication from Harrington and Bryne)

Look at all the different silver coins available from the European Mint https://www.europeanmint.com/silver-bullion/ and join BYB group order for the coins that you like to buy (I would buy

5x of the following coins from the European Mint via Group order

2019 1 oz CAD Canadian Silver Maple Leaf Coin

2019 1 oz Australian Silver Kangaroo Coin

2019 1oz UK Silver Britannia Coin

2019 1oz Austrian Silver Philharmonic Coin

2019 1oz $1 USD American Silver Eagle Coin

You will have purchased some of the cheapest government minted Silver from around the world and Sovereign coins with cheapest delivery option available. Total cost 1k for the above and it will give you a taste if you wish to proceed with investing the rest into PMs. I would not advise someone new to spend all their money at once into PMs. I would also recommend someone new to PMs to stay away from graded/numismatic coins IMHO.

Edited by Abyss

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Thank you all for your replies so far.

Helping hands - Lots of food for thought there.

 ilovesilverireallydo - that's really helpful. I will certainly take all that info into account.

Hawkhybrid - yes, I'm more inclined to start with sovereigns. I was just not sure if I should go with bullion or semi-numismatic.

Abyss - thx for the links and your list of coins to buy - wow! That’s awesome. The cheapest sovereigns I have come across so far. And 1k for all of that sounds like a good strategy. But then again, what do I know? 😛

 

Much appreciated! 

 

Edited by nummum

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2 minutes ago, nummum said:

Thank you all for your replies so far.

Helping hands - Lots of food for thought there.

 ilovesilverireallydo - that's really helpful. I will certainly take all that info into account.

Hawkhybrid - yes, I'm more inclined to start with sovereigns. I was just not sure if I should go with bullion or semi-numismatic.

Abyss - thx for the links and your list of coins to buy - wow! That’s awesome. The cheapest sovereigns I have come across so far. And 1k for all of that sounds like a good strategy. But then again, what do I know? 😛

 

 

Bullion Sovereigns, easy to obtain, easy to sell. 

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I love that idea of starting a new stack now with all the knowledge us seasoned stackers have today. If I were to start over today I would tell you forget all about variations of coins and bars and stay far away from high premium silver. A lot of non sense really and at the end of the day you will most likely never get your premiums back if you ever need to sell quick to get fiat cash. 

I would buy 100 oz silver bars as the base of my stack and then just generic 1 oz silver bullion as close to spot as possible. Gold, I would stick with 1 oz generic gold bullion or old pre33 US gold that has been cleaned or polished which can be bought at a cheap price. 

Biggest advice I would give is to not get caught up in the variations of coins and rounds, stay away from series and just stick to worrying about two things. The price of spot when you buy and the price of spot when you sell. The rest is fun but is not the smartest when it comes to looking after your money. You don't want to be worrying about what series/coins are hot now and then in three years from now no one cares about that $50/oz premium you paid... Stick to spot. 

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I'm new to precious metals too. I only bought my first 2 sovereigns in December last year and my very slow plan was maybe just to buy £500-£1000 worth of gold bullion coins per year from now on. But I've loaded up a bit quicker than planned so far due to a below spot firm (with drawbacks) that's been well debated in this section lately.

My advice, if like me you're relatively new and are more into holding for the long term than flipping anyway, is stick to gold bullion as close to spot as possible, and that's sovereigns from what I've seen/done. It makes for a bit of a boring collection but hey ho I'm in it purely for the metal (and diversifying my assets).

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@nummum  i've been stacking over 10 years now, got caught up in the silver buying bug and myself and several others here are very underwater and still nowhere near a profit we expected/wished for/didnt come from the web/youtube silver pumpers out there

In hindsight, i just wish i had stacked gold from day one now, one major benefit is the margin spread you pay between buy and sell is so much lower with gold than silver.

also gold takes a lot less room up

once you get over x500 of silver it is cumbersome and takes up major room

Over my stacking journey, I have sold gold coins for profit, have raised the odd grand when i needs some funds.

Always easy to add a sovereign to the stack each month and forget about it.  the pension fund you can dip in and out of as required.

Plus, you know the the fractions of a gram what you stack is always at.  Look at spot its £1000, you know you have x100 oz gold = your sat on £100k

i like sovereign / quarter oz size easy to liquidate via web/forum sales. folk will risk £200 but wont part with £1k so easily

also who harm in just reading reading and reading. more knowledge you learn the more you have less chance to make the mistakes we have all made jumping in with both feet when an early eager beaver

also no harm in getting one of every small gold coins in the early days so you have an idea for designs, mint, packing etc

pick silver up where you can from good forum sellers when at very good price through likes of  @StackSellRepeat @arshimo2012

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1 hour ago, NorthEast said:

I love that idea of starting a new stack now with all the knowledge us seasoned stackers have today.

😛

1 hour ago, NorthEast said:

Biggest advice I would give is to not get caught up in the variations of coins and rounds, stay away from series and just stick to worrying about two things. The price of spot when you buy and the price of spot when you sell. The rest is fun but is not the smartest when it comes to looking after your money. You don't want to be worrying about what series/coins are hot now and then in three years from now no one cares about that $50/oz premium you paid... Stick to spot. 

That's true -  I don't want to be worrying about those things. I'll follow your advice and keep it simple. Thank you northeast 

 

1 hour ago, Goldflinger said:
1 hour ago, Goldflinger said:

I'm new to precious metals too. I only bought my first 2 sovereigns in December last year and my very slow plan was maybe just to buy £500-£1000 worth of gold bullion coins per year from now on. But I've loaded up a bit quicker than planned so far due to a below spot firm (with drawbacks) that's been well debated in this section lately.

I'm so looking forward to owning my first sovereigns. Good to know I'm not the only newbie here. But you know far more than I do.

 

1 hour ago, Goldflinger said:

My advice, if like me you're relatively new and are more into holding for the long term than flipping anyway, is stick to gold bullion as close to spot as possible, and that's sovereigns from what I've seen/done. It makes for a bit of a boring collection but hey ho I'm in it purely for the metal (and diversifying my assets).

Yeah, I'm now absolutely convinced that's the way to go.

Still need to do lots of research though. Some companies/dealers have really poor reviews on google. Thank you for the advice goldflinger.

 

Edited by nummum

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Lots of good advice here, so far. 

The only thing I would add/reiterate is to start small. Don't feel you need to invest all the money you want to all at once. Start with a bit of silver, perhaps a variety of different 1oz coins. If you like them, then get some more the following month. If you really like them, don't go crazy. It's very easy to get caught up in the bug and buy too much at once, or at the wrong time. I went through a bit of a crazy spell when then price of silver was considerably higher than it is now, but buying a little every month is helping to bring my cost average down, especially at current prices. 

When you're ready to move into gold then sovereigns are a good bet, especially ones you don't mind getting your hands on and jingling around. Just don't take them out of the house to jingle around.

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I've only been going for around 18 months and luckily through research and sheer dumb luck I stick to bullion grade coins and 1/2 soverignes and the odd 1g coin or bar. I only joined this forum about a month ago through watching backyard bullion vids on YouTube. Only wish I had found it sooner as for 1oz coins I've never found such amazing prices from the guys in this forum. My main thing and this is a big one. ENJOY IT!! 

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2 hours ago, Paul said:

@nummum  i've been stacking over 10 years now, got caught up in the silver buying bug and myself and several others here are very underwater and still nowhere near a profit we expected/wished for/didnt come from the web/youtube silver pumpers out there

In hindsight, i just wish i had stacked gold from day one now, one major benefit is the margin spread you pay between buy and sell is so much lower with gold than silver.

also gold takes a lot less room up

once you get over x500 of silver it is cumbersome and takes up major room

Over my stacking journey, I have sold gold coins for profit, have raised the odd grand when i needs some funds.

Always easy to add a sovereign to the stack each month and forget about it.  the pension fund you can dip in and out of as required.

Plus, you know the the fractions of a gram what you stack is always at.  Look at spot its £1000, you know you have x100 oz gold = your sat on £100k

i like sovereign / quarter oz size easy to liquidate via web/forum sales. folk will risk £200 but wont part with £1k so easily

also who harm in just reading reading and reading. more knowledge you learn the more you have less chance to make the mistakes we have all made jumping in with both feet when an early eager beaver

also no harm in getting one of every small gold coins in the early days so you have an idea for designs, mint, packing etc

pick silver up where you can from good forum sellers when at very good price through likes of  @StackSellRepeat @arshimo2012

This is another Gold post - Thanks so much for taking the time to reply Paul. That's a real eye-opener.

 Most of you seem to agree that there's lots of downsides to silver. I don't think I'm going to take the risk...for now at least.

Will most probably follow your advice and go for Gold. :)

Small gold coins in the early days might be the most prudent idea. 

 

Edited by nummum

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57 minutes ago, dunmac said:

The only thing I would add/reiterate is to start small. Don't feel you need to invest all the money you want to all at once.

Cheers Dunmac.  Yes, I changed my mind about that too. I will not be investing a lot of money all at once as I initially intended.

I really don't want to regret it later. 

 

50 minutes ago, Jamesd said:

I've only been going for around 18 months and luckily through research and sheer dumb luck I stick to bullion grade coins and 1/2 soverignes and the odd 1g coin or bar. I only joined this forum about a month ago through watching backyard bullion vids on YouTube. Only wish I had found it sooner as for 1oz coins I've never found such amazing prices from the guys in this forum. My main thing and this is a big one. ENJOY IT!! 

 Same. I watch a lot of vids on youtube. Especially Numistacker's channel.

Interesting. Need to check their prices. Thx Jamesd. I can't wait to start. :) 

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Its also worth checking your local pawn broker/cashconverter, sometimes they come up trumps on silver rounds.  I picked up 30 oz a while back for £2 over spot!  Make sure they get the XRF tester out.  I probably wouldnt buy gold from a pawn broker though unless your very familer with what your buying.

 

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I only started last summer and very early, pretty much with my first coin, I also bought a neodymium magnet and PM gloves plus anti tarnish paper and silicia gel as well as capsules. I have actually overdone it as I even bought a bottle of argon (for keeping opened wine bottles as if they had not been opened), and a vacuumiser that has already stopped working, as well. I would not buy this now.

Only recently I bought my second and this time proper safe (after a small very cheap one from a hardware store). If I started again now, I would buy that safe first and also a proper PM tester (Simga Metalytics, which is actually still outstanding). This would already take a large chunk of what you want to spend and could even exceed it.

Obviously, if you want to buy PMs once only or if you are not completely sure you want to buy every month for a long time or if you don't want to store it at home, it would be a waste to buy a proper safe, at this point (or at all).

I agree with what several posters have already stated, that bullion Sovereigns are a good way to start with gold and even long term to accumulate a bit every month. My first piece of PM ever, a half Sovereign, turned out to be a fake. I got suspicious after a specific gravity test but I was not sure about he measurement tolerances with such small coins (I had only one half Sovereign at the time of that test, thus could only compare it to the results for full Sovereigns). I had it later confirmed as fake at another dealer who used an XRF tester. That was one of two fakes I bought, fortunately I got a proper replacement in both cases. (The other fake was a one ounce silver bar that I could identify as silver plated just by googeling it).

 

Edit: Also at the beginning I bought a scale accurate to one 100th of a gram and a calliper which I would definitely do again.

Edited by silenceissilver

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If I was starting out, I would stay away from high premium coins and mostly focus on bullion gold. While silver might be seen as a better opportunity, selling/buying it in the UK is a nightmare (wide spreads) and there is definitely uncertainty over buying silver from EU as a long term strategy. Plus the storage of doing so. 

For gold coins, I'd focus on sovereigns and Britannias first, maximum premium 3% over spot. Fractional coins like 1/2 oz or 1/4 oz can be a good idea but I noticed the premiums on them are generally higher than 1 oz coins. 

You might experience stacking fatigue - if you buy only one type of coin, then it might become boring so switching up your collection might be a way to reignite that interest/enthusiasm again. 

Once you understand the basics, you can look at higher premium coins and see how they fit with your long term goals. Personally, I am not a huge fan of high premium coins. By purchasing them, you are not only gambling on the price of gold going up but also on them maintaining their premium. That's a very risky strategy in my eyes. For example, some of Queen's Beasts series coins have high premiums (Lion, Griffin etc), there is nothing to say that their premium will hold up over time. Plus when you sell these high premium coins, some dealers might not want to pay for the premium and offer you spot price instead. 

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1 hour ago, silenceissilver said:

I only started last summer and very early, pretty much with my first coin, I also bought a neodymium magnet and PM gloves plus anti tarnish paper and silicia gel as well as capsules. I have actually overdone it as I even bought a bottle of argon (for keeping opened wine bottles as if they had not been opened), and a vacuumiser that has already stopped working, as well. I would not buy this now.

Only recently I bought my second and this time proper safe (after a small very cheap one from a hardware store). If I started again now, I would buy that safe first and also a proper PM tester (Simga Metalytics, which is actually still outstanding). This would already take a large chunk of what you want to spend and could even exceed it.

Obviously, if you want to buy PMs once only or if you are not completely sure you want to buy every month for a long time or if you don't want to store it at home, it would be a waste to buy a proper safe, at this point (or at all).

I agree with what several posters have already stated, that bullion Sovereigns are a good way to start with gold and even long term to accumulate a bit every month. My first piece of PM ever, a half Sovereign, turned out to be a fake. I got suspicious after a specific gravity test but I was not sure about he measurement tolerances with such small coins (I had only one half Sovereign at the time of that test, thus could only compare it to the results for full Sovereigns). I had it later confirmed as fake at another dealer who used an XRF tester. That was one of two fakes I bought, fortunately I got a proper replacement in both cases. (The other fake was a one ounce silver bar that I could identify as silver plated just by googeling it).

 

Edit: Also at the beginning I bought a scale accurate to one 100th of a gram and a calliper which I would definitely do again.

I'd consider the safe early, you will get caught in the right time problem otherwise, some people holding onto pm's in boxes and such then getting robbed and lose everything from some opportunist thief...a safe can be used for lots of things so you don't have it just for your pms, legal papers, mortgage details  passports etc...better to get a safe installed before your having contractors coming in when you have 500 oz of silver waiting for them to finish hacking up your concrete floor to inset the plate...better the safe with nothing then everything but the safe.

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