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Fake or real Morgan Dollar?


FFkook

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Asking for a friend, who came with this Morgan Dollar. Weighs around the same, size is about the same(looks a tenth of a millimeter thicker though), it pings like silver and non magnetic

Pretty sure the toning is fake, but the coin itself? What do you guys think?

 

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It looks really sharp - really good condition - almost too good for what is a coin intended for circulation.

There are a lot of videos on youtube which might help. A specific gravity would be a decider.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fake+morgan+dollar

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I am on the fence with this one.

Most of the detail is good but I don't like the texture of the field in particular and the whole coin in general, but this could be amplified by the appalling artificial toning.

The "CC" is correct for the year, this is an area that is usually wrong on fakes.

The 1881 CC is not a commonly known faked year.

I'm not sure what's going on at 10 o'clock between the E and the reeding.

The big problem is the hat which is very weak. The strike for this year and mint is renowned for being of very high quality.

If I had to choose, I would say it's suspicious.

Profile picture with thanks to Carl Vernon

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2 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

I am on the fence with this one.

Most of the detail is good but I don't like the texture of the field in particular and the whole coin in general, but this could be amplified by the appalling artificial toning.

The "CC" is correct for the year, this is an area that is usually wrong on fakes.

The 1881 CC is not a commonly known faked year.

I'm not sure what's going on at 10 o'clock between the E and the reeding.

The big problem is the hat which is very weak. The strike for this year and mint is renowned for being of very high quality.

If I had to choose, I would say it's suspicious.

Let me get you some other pictures, the first picture makes the hat look weak, hope these are better:

2019-03-12 16.21.24.jpg

2019-03-12 16.21.18.jpg

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non magnetic usually isnt enough anymore, if you are testing with a neo dymium magnet, put the coin at roughly 45 degree angle and let the magnet slide down, silver is diamagnetic and a powerful magnet will slide down with a noticeable resistance, if it passes that test, it is likely silver, although copper reacts the same and has similar density to silver, unless its a key date, then it will be real 

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47 minutes ago, PansPurse said:

I'd definitely do a specific gravity test... depending on the outcome are you interested in selling? (insert cheeky winky face)

Don't have a good scale to do that test though. Never needed it before.. 

It's not my coin, it's from a friend, but I'm not sure what to do with it now. Don't want to sell it on either, should it be a fake then someone else gets disappointed..

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2 minutes ago, FFkook said:

Don't have a good scale to do that test though. Never needed it before.. 

It's not my coin, it's from a friend, but I'm not sure what to do with it now. Don't want to sell it on either, should it be a fake then someone else gets disappointed..

Fair, maybe you could sell it and get BYB to verify it? think he's well set up for stuff like specific gravity testing?

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Specific gravity test wouln't rule out a fake. There are some pretty sophisticated fakes around made out of correct metal.

The ring test is useful as fakes are often not struck in the same way as a genuine coin.

Profile picture with thanks to Carl Vernon

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11 minutes ago, PansPurse said:

Fair, maybe you could sell it and get BYB to verify it? think he's well set up for stuff like specific gravity testing?

 

7 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

Specific gravity test wouln't rule out a fake. There are some pretty sophisticated fakes around made out of correct metal.

The ring test is useful as fakes are often not struck in the same way as a genuine coin.

Hmm, so even a gravity test wouldnt tell exactly? The ring test is the only thing which is different from my morgans, it sounds a little higher.. 

@PansPurse and others, any other ideas maybe? 

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1 minute ago, FFkook said:

 

Hmm, so even a gravity test wouldnt tell exactly? The ring test is the only thing which is different from my morgans, it sounds a little higher.. 

@PansPurse and others, any other ideas maybe? 

ping, magnet, dimensions and specific gravity are all basically testing that it's the right alloy (90% silver or coin silver) as for whether it's a genuine Morgan dollar, that's a lot tougher and probably would require a real expert. It's fine me saying that it looks good to my eye, but you might have to send it to PCGS or NGC for real security on that 😕

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No local coin shops?  If the dealer is experienced enough they may be able to tell you or at least have a better idea than we can give you.

Try posting on a forum with Morgan collectors?

Use a spectrum analyser app on your phone to compare the ping to other Morgans?

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As I've mentioned and someone also mentioned, you can do tests to work out the metal, specific gravity being most accurate, but in a key date, wouldn't really prove a genuine coin, not sure if this is considered a key date but having cc mint mark is usually a target itself and adding £8 of silver instead of junk metal is a possibility in any coin, my advice, for future sale etc, get it graded by NGC

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45 minutes ago, FFkook said:

My coin shop hasnt got enough experience with Morgan Dollars to verify.

Thing is, I don't dare sell it now.. I'll try a forum with Morgan experts first..

it's worth getting an idea if it's genuine as, in the grade it looks to be, it would be a several hundred dollar coin (depending on whether that toning has ruined it or not).

 

Profile picture with thanks to Carl Vernon

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I've owned a fair few Morgan, a fake hasn't fooled me yet, if you are out of options and don't want to pay out for NGC verification, I'll take a good look at it, do a few of my own tests, as I say it's most likely real if it is silver, low mintage but the gsa hoard was full of them so as someone said they're not a popular fake

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5 hours ago, PansPurse said:

I'd definitely do a specific gravity test... depending on the outcome are you interested in selling? (insert cheeky winky face)

I'm doing the gravity test this, week, will let you know what the outcome is..

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Okay, check out this small detail that I noticed, compared to other Morgans.. On other Morgans, the hair is draping over the neck line, on the CC it doesn't.. Or isn't that a big flaw?

 

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