Sigma Metalytics Precious Metal Verifier

[katmonkey]

Hi, does anyone know where I can purchase a:

Sigma Metalytics Precious Metal Verifier.

I've seen this model on eBay but there based in America & I would prefer to buy in the UK.

I would also consider buying second hand.

Thanks

K

[Abyss]

Going to the states next year and will be buying one of these to bring back to the UK. I personally am unable to find reasonable price in comparison price being sold in the USA in the UK.

[vicamy]

@SilverStan

[SilverStan]

I can get these the last one was approx £625  Pm me if youd like one.

I love mine 

[ivanNumis]

I got mine from https://www.sigma-verifiers.com/ they are based somewhere in EU if I remember correctly

[whuamai]

I am also interested in them but  for me personally the price is a bit high....These products aren't on the market for so long and I guess prices will go down a bit in the future when everyone who pays a high price has one already. Maybe there is also a chance to buy one second hand....

[ivanNumis]

I was looking for second hand unit for more than year and never ever seen one. If you have a friend who owns company in EU with VAT registration, ask him to buy it, thats instant 20% discount. Maybe group order or try to contact them, they were very helpful and picked for me the right configuration. It depends what kind of products do you work with, you wouldn't use any of external accessories unless you work with specific products.    

[ivanNumis]

I just got second PMV PRO basic unit for a friend of mine. There is 100 EUR discount on theirs EU site for base model at the moment if anyone is still waiting for a sale. BTW it seems that Sigma Metalytics has increased prices for accessories, microwand went from 100 USD to 265 USD on both EU and US sites, and add couple of new ones. If anyone has experience with external bridge I would love to hear some feedback if its worth the money. 

[Gildeon]

I have gone through the numbers and they don't add up. For bullion I have to find that a considerable proportion of my stack is fake to justify it, so I hope that's not true! 😬

I have caught some fakes with other test, weighing ,measuring etc. So the PMV must catch the ones passing these tests, which reduces the percentage considerably.

One useful thing could be if you deal with higher end collectibles, which can be silver but not original (older Pandas come to mind). But again, how many can these be, that can't be spotted otherwise...?

Only reason I could ever use this is if I was trading professionally, just to be sure that everything I am sending out is 100% ok.

I would consider such an equipment for 200-250 € at the most.

[ivanNumis]

My personal experience, I buy only from reputable dealers, no ebay, no secondary market, I simply dont trust it. I have PMV PRO for about 2 years or so and only once I had an issue with gold bar. It was 1oz PAMP bar in card pack, it was bought from quite a big dealer from Switzerland, turn out to be fake, but they admit it was bought from customer, not PAMP mint and they immediately refund me back. But since I got my PMV I am have been testing stacks for all of my friends and sadly current number of discovered fakes is 32. Its true that most of that was bought on secondary market, rest of it from small dealers and few from well known dealers. If you are greedy and fall for "super good deal" from some random person on the internet you will most likely get ripped off. You can see purchases by country on Aliexpress, there is hundreds of fakes been bought from EU, most of it ends up on ebay and other sites. So I guess it depends on where and what you buy, but when you buy bar in card I dont think there is any other options to test it (unless you are ok to damage packaging). I have read somewhere we are dealing with 3rd generation of chinese fakes which are so high quality its really hard to spot it. I am paranoid and test every single thing. The fact is that it takes about 1oz of fake gold to cover the price of PMV and its no secret many of reputable dealers and directly mints had found out fake gold and silver in their stock. Thats the reason I dont buy from europeanmint, big chunk of their stock is from buybacks and secondary market

[Pipers]

3 hours ago, ivanNumis said:

My personal experience, I buy only from reputable dealers, no ebay, no secondary market, I simply dont trust it. I have PMV PRO for about 2 years or so and only once I had an issue with gold bar. It was 1oz PAMP bar in card pack, it was bought from quite a big dealer from Switzerland, turn out to be fake, but they admit it was bought from customer, not PAMP mint and they immediately refund me back. But since I got my PMV I am have been testing stacks for all of my friends and sadly current number of discovered fakes is 32. Its true that most of that was bought on secondary market, rest of it from small dealers and few from well known dealers. If you are greedy and fall for "super good deal" from some random person on the internet you will most likely get ripped off. You can see purchases by country on Aliexpress, there is hundreds of fakes been bought from EU, most of it ends up on ebay and other sites. So I guess it depends on where and what you buy, but when you buy bar in card I dont think there is any other options to test it (unless you are ok to damage packaging). I have read somewhere we are dealing with 3rd generation of chinese fakes which are so high quality its really hard to spot it. I am paranoid and test every single thing. The fact is that it takes about 1oz of fake gold to cover the price of PMV and its no secret many of reputable dealers and directly mints had found out fake gold and silver in their stock. Thats the reason I dont buy from europeanmint, big chunk of their stock is from buybacks and secondary market

Thanks @ivanNumis for sharing your experience with the PMV PRO, certainly 32 fakes is a lot.  

AS for testing coins using the PMV PRO did you buy the wands?   My reason for asking this is after watching a few videos about the PMV PRO i cannot see why most coin stackers would need the wands unless they buy big bars of silver.     

[ivanNumis]

It depends on what kind of coins and bars you deal with. If you do only regular bullion coins and small to mid size bars you don't need any wands. I have PMV PRO with microwand and refiners wand, but have used wands maybe twice. Second unit we bought recently for buddy of ours as bday gift is just PMV Pro basic model with no wands. I have few 1kg silver bars that wouldn't fit in, thats why I was asking if anyone has experience with external bridge addon. 

[Xander]

On 16/02/2019 at 11:05, SilverStan said:

I can get these the last one was approx £625  Pm me if youd like one.

I love mine 

Do they sell them i the UK?

[Xander]

On 25/03/2019 at 13:35, ivanNumis said:

I got mine from https://www.sigma-verifiers.com/ they are based somewhere in EU if I remember correctly

Was shipping expensive?

[Notafront4adragon]

Does anyone in the U.K. on the forum who owns one of these offer a verification service? 

I was thinking of offering one for the more "adventerous" (ebay) buyers who want to be sure about what they've bought. 

[HighlandTiger]

Never seen the need for buying one of these. For Gold I only buy sovereigns, (the occasional 1/10th Brit), and I can test these with a 170 year old Victorian invention. Most of my silver is either hallmarked flatware, or coins I can test with a rare earth magnet, scales and a ruler. 

In fact the magnet has spotted more fake coins when I'm out and about silver hunting in boot fairs, antique fairs, and antique shops, than I would have imagined. 

[Murph]

On 24/07/2019 at 08:29, Gildeon said:

 

I have caught some fakes with other test, weighing ,measuring etc. So the PMV must catch the ones passing these tests, which reduces the percentage considerably.

One useful thing could be if you deal with higher end collectibles, which can be silver but not original (older Pandas come to mind). But again, how many can these be, that can't be spotted otherwise...?

 

 

Surely it wouldn't pick up a coin that is the same size and material but a copy of a more expensive date anyway?

If, as you say, these copies are made of silver the forgers are likely to be willing to spend the money buying 99.9 or new bullion and not using lower purity silver?

Also with much older coins that may have been altered to a rarer date or forged the only way to tell is by examining them.  Unless they aren't silver or gold in which case weighing, magnets or the like are going to expose them.  Many experienced collectors can tell you from a good set of pictures anyway.

[ivanNumis]

On 10/08/2019 at 01:14, Xander said:

Was shipping expensive?

I believe it depends on shipping country, I have paid few euros for shipping to Germany

[ivanNumis]

On 11/08/2019 at 03:43, Murph said:

 

Surely it wouldn't pick up a coin that is the same size and material but a copy of a more expensive date anyway?

If, as you say, these copies are made of silver the forgers are likely to be willing to spend the money buying 99.9 or new bullion and not using lower purity silver?

Also with much older coins that may have been altered to a rarer date or forged the only way to tell is by examining them.  Unless they aren't silver or gold in which case weighing, magnets or the like are going to expose them.  Many experienced collectors can tell you from a good set of pictures anyway.

Just to make it clear, these devices do not test authenticity or purity of coins. You have to know what material it should be to do successful testing. In general you should always do multiple tests. I always start with magnet test, then size and weight following with test on PMV. For old coins I use Leuchtturm microscope. It is very easy to see if coin was altered under the microscope.

Whole PMV testing is based on very simple rule. You can fake one physical property, but not all. For example you can make coin same size (diameter and thickness), but weight and resistance will not match if it is not made of correct metal. That's why I like PMV PRO, because it allows you to do specific gravity test without need of complicated math and measuring coin weight in water.